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#Post#: 15129--------------------------------------------------
Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genocide?
Hegemony in international politics?
By: Forest Date: May 7, 2019, 2:18 am
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Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genocide?
Is it due to the system of hegemony in the international
politics?
Holocaust, the mass murder of Jews in Europe by Nazi during the
Second World War has been been described as the worst massacre
in the human history, mourned the most. And constantly it
demands us to reflect on the evil nature of mankind. It has been
filmed so many times, and has become an important subject of
lots of novels, plays. Its said that Hitler and Nazi killed
6000,000 in a short period of time.(some say 6 million, but some
insist that it is overstated and is around 1 million)
By the way, according to historians, the number of Indian
massacres in the Americas by white Christians from Europe is at
least 20 million to 60 million.(of course the number can be
controversial, and I'm not sure the exact number.) The massacre
means include all kinds of intentional and unintentional
infectious diseases such as smallpox virus. At that time, the
white soldiers or civilians thought of Indians as buffalo that
they hunted. In other words, it is not a human being, but a
creature less than a pagan who should be cleansed from the
Christian point of view. However, The US government has never
officially apologized for the genocide.
This problem is not discussed in detail and that much, and has
not taken up in books or textbooks seriously. On the contrary,
the Jewish people have been considered victims and poor people
through history textbooks and media of all countries. This is
because Jewish have power over the world. I have wondered : Is
history written in favor of the winners or powerful groups?
I don't find anything wrong with the tendency. For sure,
Holocaust is one of the worst massacres and we humans have to
think over the evil nature of ourselves and try not to commit
this kind of crime again.
My point is why only Holocaust is given the red carpet
treatment. I don't have any impure motive here. Just this has
been my unsolved question for a long time. Now, I want to share
opinions with people from other countries, and hope to hear lots
of new, original perspectives that can make me deeper in
thought.
#Post#: 15130--------------------------------------------------
Re:Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genocid
e?Hegemony in international politics
By: Forest Date: May 7, 2019, 2:24 am
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cf Here are other seriously terrible massacres.
Nanjing Massacre
In 1937, during the Sino-Japanese War, a large-scale massacre
was committed by a Japanese military occupying Nanjing, the
capital of China. It has been known that about 300,000 Chinese
were brutally slaughtered by the Japanese forces in about six
weeks, and the number of women affected by rape is in the range
of 20,000 to 80,000.
In 1994, one of the worst tribal slaughter in the late 20th
century began in Rwanda, a small country in central Africa.More
than 10% of Rwanda's total population of 7 million people is
killed.
The Khmer Rouge regime, a communist militant group in Cambodia
in 1975, slaughtered 2million intellectuals and wealthy, a
quarter of the total population,
in four years under the pretext of building a worker and a
peasant utopia,
#Post#: 15132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: Alharacas Date: May 7, 2019, 3:23 am
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SJ, yes, I know there have been more than enough massacres and
genocides over the course of history. Still, I'm quite sure it
has nothing to do with political hegemony of any sort. It's a)
the comprehensiveness and b) the industrial quality of the
killing which make the Holocaust stand out.
Whatever else human beings have done to other human beings, sent
them to work under inhuman conditions, starved/tortured them,
sent them on death marches through deserts, put them on the
least seaworthy ships they could find on a journey to nowhere,
looked on while they died from some infection, threw poison gas
bombs on villages - some always survived. Rounding people up and
herding them into gas chambers - that's on a different plane
altogether.
Please don't talk to me about films. Films are, by their very
nature, about living people. And about audiences. Go and read a
couple of non-fiction books instead, will you? "Ordinary men" by
Christopher Browning comes to mind.
Or go visit Yad Vashem.
#Post#: 15133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: Irena Date: May 7, 2019, 4:01 am
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[quote author=SJ link=topic=1028.msg15129#msg15129
date=1557213515]
Its said that Hitler and Nazi killed 600,000 in a short period
of time.(some say 6 million, but historians insist that it is
overstated and is generally said to be between 15 and 1 million)
[/quote]
Huh? Who are these supposed historians?? Geez.
#Post#: 15134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: NealC Date: May 7, 2019, 4:20 am
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Indians getting sick from European diseases is not a "massacre",
that is a misuse of the English word. Massacre involves
volition, a will to do harm. The European explorers had no
concept of how things like smallpox and influenza were even
transmitted, let alone what they would do to the native
population. The largest number of deaths were in more populous
(at the time) South America, most of the dying from disease was
done long before 1776, should the United States government
apologize for all that too?
The American Indian was not hunted like a buffalo, that was done
much later in Australia, with the advent of long range rifles in
the open space of the Outback.
As for Christianity, it is often let down by the actions of
"Christians", but there is no Biblical support for the massacre
of non-believers. Indeed if I may take a page out of the
Socialist notebook, we have never had a political situation
where real Christians have been in charge.
For the record, Hitler and the Nazis killed, slaughtered,
massacred, over 12 million in the concentration camps, 6 million
of which were Jews. It is estimated another 5-6 million people
were massacred by the Nazis outside the camps. It is a far
different thing when I gas or shoot someone, compared to
coughing on them and making them sick. Yes dead is dead, but
only one of the above is a "massacre".
You can educate yourself on the Holocaust at this link:
HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
The bibliography is very extensive.
Also for the record, as an Administrator of this site I would
like to state clearly that I am not interested in discussion of
Holocaust denial, or even Holocaust belittling. And no, I am
not in the pay of the Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy. I despise
the the ignorance and the political mindset behind Holocaust
denial and am not interested putting up with it here.
On a personal level I still remember friends of my father,
strong men who came home from that war who could still weep and
be enraged 50 years later by what they saw in those camps, and
the U.S. didn't even liberate the really big ones. Those men
would rise up and haunt my dreams if I did anything different on
this topic.
So if that is what you would like to discuss SJ, I am warning
you now, you are skating on thin ice.
#Post#: 15137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: Forest Date: May 7, 2019, 5:51 am
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@irena
It's my mistake if I put the wrong number, and sorry about it. I
think I miss one 0 when writing the number. I had better correct
the victim numbers. By the way, you should be more careful when
you express your opinion. Geez??? Oh my..I think people usually
don't use such a rude word when they discuss as long as I know.
There have been various interpretations and controversies
surrounding the number of victims of Holocaust. With regard to
the number of victims, about 3 million people have been
identified by Yad Vashem, Israel 's Holocaust Memorial, and it
is estimated that the number of victims exceeds 6 million.
However, nobody can assume the precise victim numbers.
#Post#: 15139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: Chizuko hanji Date: May 7, 2019, 6:04 am
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SJ
[quote] Its said that Hitler and Nazi killed 600,000 in a short
period of time
the number of Indian massacres in the Americas by white
Christians from Europe is at least 20 million to 60 million
[/quote]
[quote]Nanjing Massacre
In 1937, during the Sino-Japanese War, a large-scale massacre
was committed by a Japanese military occupying Nanjing, the
capital of China.
In 1994, one of the worst tribal slaughter in the late 20th
century began in Rwanda, a small country in central Africa.More
than 10% of Rwanda's total population of 7 million people is
killed.
The Khmer Rouge regime, a communist militant group in Cambodia
in 1975, slaughtered 2million intellectuals and wealthy, a
quarter of the total population,
in four years under the pretext of building a worker and a
peasant utopia,
[/quote]
What's the difference between them? Numbers? The areas? Time?
No, they are not.
The difference is that those massacre were committed in what
kind of wars.
[quote]My point is why only Holocaust is given the red carpet
treatment. [/quote]
I think I have three points to answer your question, SJ.
First point is that I think it depends on the what kind of the
war. Only Holocaust was in the WORLD war. People don't know
other LOCAL area. (At least we know, of course) For example,
all Japanese know about Nanjing Massacre but many Japanese don't
know about massacre in Rwanda that broke out when was the World
Cup in the US. Not only Japanese but all the world were watching
the football games. They didn't know about Rwanda at all.
Holocaust is well-known since all the people of the world
involved the WORLD war. Everybody knows it.
Secondly you can consider about how many people can write their
sad stories. Many Jewish people can write about their stories,
but how about people in Rwanda? Native Americans couldn't write
or read, probably.
Finally, It is the religion as their network. Jewish people have
very strong connection to keep their record of their lives. So
the story of their tragedy will be conveyed forever.
#Post#: 15140--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: Forest Date: May 7, 2019, 6:20 am
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@Alharacas
Thank you for your comment. I understand what you say
well.However, I'm not denying Holocaust, but just trying to see
in other way that the mainstream society has told me. I think we
need to open our minds to new perspectives and break or fight
fakes if it needs, to be true humanists. I always feel touched
with books, articles and movies on Holocaust: Especially, the
movie La vita è bella.
Here is the things that I want to say:
Despite the fact that the Jews were the first victims of Nazi
racism, there are other victims included Gypsies, the physical
or mental disabled among the Nazi victims. Besides approximately
2 million to 3 million Soviet prisoners of war were also killed
or died of hunger, disease, neglect, and poor treatment.Germany
also massacred non-Jewish Polish intellectuals, and homosexuals.
I'm saying that people just focus on Jews victims, and those
other sacrifices haven't got enough concerns.Of course, I don't
try to degrade Jews massacre here, but just fair treatment. In
conclusion, I'm saying that
there is criticism that too much attention is focused on the
massacre of the Jews, causing the problem of turning off other
massacres. At the time of World War II, about 30 to 40 million
Soviet people died and about 23 million Chinese died. The Jews
are generally estimated to have died 6 million. Gypsies,
disabilities, and homosexuals with more deaths are not as
interested in Jewish Holocaust.
When the Holocaust Memorial Museum was opened in Washington,
USA, the Native Americans rallied in front of them. They cried
that It was hypocrisy that the United States, built on land
where the Indians were driven and killed, excluded the memory of
it and commemorated the Jewish massacre in Europe. The influence
of the American media can never be overlooked, in the tendency
to ignore other massacres and to emphasize only the Jewish
massacre. The overwhelming majority of American press is Jewish,
and they naturally emphasized only the Holocaust, the Jews'
death, to form a favorable public opinion in favor of Israel.
The fact that the Soviet Union and China, which sacrificed
population close to three to four times than the victims of the
Jews, were the main enemies of the United States, further fueled
this tendency. The ridiculous thing is that the Holocaust of
Nazi during World War II only comes to common people's minds,
when we say brutal massacre.
One more thing, In the 1970s, when the pro-Sovietization of the
Middle East deepened, the importance of Israel increased, and
there is an interpretation that the Holocaust received a new
spotlight for the National interest of the US.
#Post#: 15142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: Chizuko hanji Date: May 7, 2019, 6:38 am
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SJ,
SJ, You already seem to know the answer. I just wrote my comment
purely like an idiot. I love to read this kind of topic, but I
can't write like a journalist. I'll be out. Thank you.
#Post#: 15144--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why do we say Holocaust much more than other terrible genoci
de? Hegemony in international politi
By: Forest Date: May 7, 2019, 6:52 am
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Hi, Neal C
Well, now let me tell you American history of Indian persecution
roughly. Im not trying to attack Americans or the history, but
doing fact check.
After the end of the Independent War and the withdrawal of the
British Army, the genocide of Indians did not end in North
America. The Americans accepted the subsidy system developed by
the British during their colonial times and implemented them
among all. Especially in Texas, the system remained untouched
until there were no more Indians to kill. In California, even
after subsidies were officially abolished, the wealthy still
paid subsidies to those who killed Indians. In the aftermath of
that, the population of California, which had exceeded 300,000
shrank to less than 30,000.
On the other hand, the method of "biological warfare" that
Britons devised to exterminate the Indians was also mobilized
after the Independent War. The biological war was first
introduced in 1763. To understand it, Sir Jeffrey Amherst
instructed the Ottawa tribe to distribute smallpox-infected
objects to destroy the 'cursed race'. As a result, an infectious
disease spreading along the Ohio River, at least 100,000 Indians
were killed. Even after the end of the War, Americans did not
abandon this brutal legacy left by the British.
In the early 1830s, the United States established a policy of
forcing all Indians living in the eastern part of the
Mississippi River to move to other regions. Indians who were
detained under this plan had to march thousands of miles under
the watchful eye and control of white people, and many Indians
were sacrificed in this process. The "Trail of Tears", which the
Cherokee Indians had to do, was one of the most prominent
events. According to this plan, from spring 1837 to autumn 1838,
16,000 Cherokee Indians had to walk from Oklahoma to their
hometowns. This 'march' was a treasure trove to walk 1,800
villages across nine states. It took about 200 days to reach the
destination. Only 4,000 people lost their lives because of
pouring rain, cold winds, hunger, disease and schizophrenia. For
the Cherokee Indians who were expelled from their hometowns to
provide a "living space" for growing white people, the North
American continent was a "space of death" itself.
The strange "Indian War" that took place over 40 times also
contributed greatly to the annihilation of Native Americans.
These 'wars', which took place on a large scale from 1814 to
1870, were unilateral massacres. The Indian massacre was done
not only in a direct way but also in an indirect way. The most
representative of them was a large buffalo hunt. The
annihilation of Buffalo, which was indispensable for the
survival of the Indians for thousands of years, was a disruption
to the Indian base of their lives.
The number of North American Indians, which reached 15 million
by the year 1500, decreased to less than 250,000 in 1890, when
estimated at the maximum, through the various wars of
extinction. 97.5 percent had disappeared. Even at the minimum,
it was 90 percent. This disaster could not have been imagined
until Europeans entered the Americas. The white perpetrators
blamed all of this to fate, but this tragedy was man-made, not
natural disaster. In this tragedy were intentions, purposes and
plans of white people. The purpose of the white people was to
secure the "living space" of the white people above all.
Now, can you still say that the genocide of American Indians
wasn't massacre, but just the destiny of them or deaths from
natural causes? After the war, the United States, through the
Nuremberg trials, emphasized the image of the "White Knight"
around the world, most of which were executed or imprisoned on
charges of "aggressive war" and "anti-humanitarian crimes"
Ironically, however, Adolf Hitler made clear that the German
policy of living in this area followed American policy toward
indigenous Americans.
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