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#Post#: 587--------------------------------------------------
The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: drewisfat Date: June 20, 2013, 5:11 am
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After recent events, it has been brought to my attention that
this nonsensical list not only exists, but that Tom intends to
continue updating it, and that some people are even putting
value into it.
This list is complete garbage.
It's important to understand why it is garbage though. You see
after all, everyone will have a difference of opinion of others
skill level. This post isn't just about him having "wrong
opinions". The problem with this list isn't just that drewisfat
isn't ranked #1. It's that the entire setup is arbitrary and
inconsistent, such that it could not possibly give good results,
even if Tom were a good judge. A list that simply says "These
are my rankings on snipers players at the moment" would make a
lot more sense. It would be pure opinion; to each his own.
This list, however, has an air of legitimacy to it created by a
point system, to convince you actual calculations and thoughtful
analysis was performed. This is just not the case, nor could it
be. Let's look at why.
"Here is how the ratings work.
Snipers Skill Level (SSL): This is an all-inclusive score of how
skilled a player is at the game of Snipers. The rating is out of
100 total points and each attribute category contains 10 maximum
possible points. I have based one's skill level on the following
ten attributes:"
eEEgaDS we're off to a bad start. 10 attributes, 10 points
each, goes to 100 it looks great! Except it's dog shit. If
this is to be valuable at all several assumptions must hold:
- Each attribute is worth the same amount.
- Attributes don't overlap.
- There are exactly 10 worthwhile attributes.
Of course none of these is true and the 10 attributes he does
pick out are horribly thought through. Do you think FS skill is
equal to WW skill?? I think this would obviously depend on the
version! Is solo skill just as important as teamwork? I
thought in Snipers your team gets a score and that wins the
game. Maybe I wrong, my knowledge score ain't perfect!
I wonder how you judge anticipation independently from
awareness? :D I wonder how you separate solo skill from
teamwork. If you look closely you may notice a lot of overlap.
In fact you may notice NOTHING but overlap ^_^
And once you start bullshitting and not caring about overlap or
equality, there is really no reason to stop. Why not add more
attributes? ZOMG leadership is definitely a skill. You must
take initiative to guide team to victory!! Why isn't gold
management its own skill? People gotta learn to not waste their
gold stupidly!!
There's also some great individual gems like Efficiency
"10. Efficiency: The ability to get the highest number of kills
with the fewest deaths possible."
So what Tom is implying here is that going 10:0 is better than
20:10. It's not. Your relevant score is the net score you
contributed to the final score. (ofc issues arise with assists,
sacrifices, etc.). Psychologically you can feel stoked all you
want that you are playing a perfect game, but it's not relevant.
In fact it probably indicates you are playing too passive and
could further your team's lead even more.
This is not up for debate. If you disagree with this you fail
at math / basic snipers knowledge / team work. Of course Tom
has a 10 in knowledge and a 9 in team work !! How
interesting.... and more faith is lost in the rankings....
Let's continue through the list in reverse order shall we.
Number 9 is almost as horrid as number 10.
"9. Consistency: This may not be ultra-important, but being able
to play well on a consistent basis is indeed a skill."
We'll get to why this is bullshit in a second, but notice that
Tom himself considers his skills to be of unequal importance
:o?? I mean this one is not ultra-important! Different skills
get different adjectives, apparently. Awareness is extremely
important, but FS is just a luxury skill! This is all fine and
dandy, except that each of these skills is given completely
equal weighting in your 100 point all-inclusive sniper score of
greatness ::)
Where was I. Oh right. It's important to be good consistently.
This sounds correct, but does this make sense as one of the
10-point skills?? I mean one would assume you are rating our
average performance in each of these categories already.... How
is consistency not completely covered already.... Are you just
rating everyone's top game lol?
I also like #7 FS skill, #3 awareness and #2 anticipation.
Isn't Fsing someone a combination of knowing about where the
other team is and predicting where they will go? This sounds a
lot like #3 and #2, in fact it sounds like it's entirely covered
by #3 and #2. We can easily drop #7 from the skills list too.
I'm pretty proud of myself, after not too much work I've
eliminated three skills from mattering entirely. But wait --
"1. Locking skill: How skilled someone is at winning locks."
Nevermind, it looks you've managed to eliminate 9 of your skills
with the all encompassing Locking Skill!! :D ;D :P :'( :-[ :-X
:-* ;) :D ???
Sorry I call 'em as I see 'em, rubric system is even more
retarded here than on middle school essays. What really
concerns me though is the power trippy element to all this. I
know power trips when I see them; there's reason sheeptaggers
call me hitler :) Constantly updating a list, supported by
pseudoscience is a power trip move no doubt about it.
Controlling the evaluations of skill, that's like de ultimate
powerS! I scared to get into fight with Tom, he might drop my
knowledge by two more points and lower me a rank!!
And sure you will say we can all create a list, and it's
just your opinion, etc. But you're already a leader in the
clan/community/website, and current #1 on your list!! Who could
have a more authoritative list!! Not to mention who else is
going to bother constantly updating their list on Excel lol.
Special shout out to sheep numero uno: Rapedman, whose puerile
mind had no doubt that having a friend rate you instead of a
self-rating would purge the list of bias!!
"It's good list. All got fair rated and no one rated himself."
#Post#: 588--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: Celestial_One Date: June 20, 2013, 6:07 am
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After recent events, it has been brought to my attention how
naive and immature a select few snipers are. They hold different
standards for other players, and continually prove themselves to
be manipulative jerks.
As I have said before in the heat of the moment:
[07:06:19 PM] <Celestial_One> your list is trash and everyone
that is a decent player knows it
I can't believe I said that. Honestly. It should read: Everyone
that has any decent level of intelligence knows it*. I forgot
that most of the decent snipers are not only unintelligent, but
they are sheep, and continually follow what someone blindly
tells them instead of thinking for their own. Really mature
guys. After all snipers takes about 2 weeks to get good at, and
be continually good at. Anyone can get good at snipers. Why?
Because the community is, and always has, had crazy egotistical
people at its head. The game has relatively little skill
anymore. It turned from who can pend better, anticipate better,
and lock faster into who can stand closest to allies and huddle
around a ward.
To further prove my point before confronting me about maphacking
Tom already editted the list to show that I was a maphacker.
Some fairness shown there. But no worries I'm in the blue now.
Let's continue this train of thought. Today I learned that
Plague and Peng had some elaborate scheme for ****s and giggles
for when I logged in. Before even allowing me to explain myself
they tricked me into joining a game, banned me from it, and then
Tom went on an account (Caesar[GLS]) in an attempt to make me
angry instead of confronting me on his main account.
Congratulations. You did. The irony is Tom's knowledge is 10
when he knows relatively little about how fogclicks work. It's a
real wonder that nobody else who was falsely banned went to the
troubles I did to prove my innocence. Oh wait, now I know why.
Because nobody else had the technical know-how (setup a stream)
or patience to deal with these nincumpoops.
One of the first responses to the alleged maphack accusations
was [03:01:06 PM] <Caesar[GLS]> The wisest thing you could do
now is pull an IaM] and never be heard from again." Months of
friendliness and respect down the drain. It's not that you
accused me, but how you handled the situation altogether. I had
to spend quite a while jumping through hoops to prove my
innocence even though many others sided with me. Not only this
but my counter was that I stream everygame. He claims to not try
to discredit me, and yet who else would check replays for a
player that is over a month old? Even if he does find a replay
of someone maphacking a month ago what does that prove about
their current gameplay? But this is besides the point. I'm
derailing the discussion from the list and focusing on Tom's
negligence and overall negative attitude towards anyone that
isn't his sheep. You say you didn't go around telling people
about me "maphacking", and yet the very first thing you did was
edit this crazy list, had your sheep kick me from a game in
front of most of the active players, and then confront me in a
"private setting". Oops I did it again.
So back on track. The list that inflates egos. Not only does
almost every attribute overlap eachother in some way, it shows
relatively little understanding of how the game works. Clearly
teamwork should be weighted being that it isn't a 1v1 game. This
isn't lockwars, but wait. LOL! There's an attribute that focuses
on LOCKS. Not only does this encompass the entire game of
snipers, but he vaguely makes it about locking speed, and
winning locks (what?). Clearly learning how to steplock must be
as important as being a good teammate or farsighting. Not only
does this show naivete, but it shows arrogance. Tom knows he
probably could beat most in lockwars. Is steplocking or whatever
variation of a lock really as important as farsighting? Really?
lol.
Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying Tom is a bad player, on
the contrary he is among the best players, but that further
compliments my theory on this community. He has also played the
game actively longer than anyone else. Don't be fooled, my
sheepies, snipers has always been about inflated egos and what
better way to inflate your ego than to resurrect a game with no
old players and have hoards of people following you doting on
your every word? What better way than to make a list where
everyone goes ":D awesome list totally fair!". I'm not saying
lists themselves are bad, and I'm not even going to argue about
who should be placed where. The important thing is you must
realize there is little to no evidence for any rating in any
attribute he gives to anyone.
As drew has already mentioned. Heck Tom is #1! It must be fair
because the person who he taught everything he knows about
snipers rated him so. Not only is this ignorant, but it's
straight up loony. Even IF that rating is accurate you must hold
it by the standards of the ratings he gives to all the other
players, and then adjust it accordingly. Yes I gave Tom a rating
of 90, but he never asked me the rating I gave to any other
player other than myself (which you promptly dismissed due to
bias).
I'm not saying that you should take down the list, because I
actually enjoyed the database for reasons other than the
rankings. The usernames involved were quite reminiscent. However
as I stated before this is a highly biased list, and little
value should be taken from it. I'm tired of being confronted by
people whining about how low Tom's rating of them was or how
clearly I am the 3rd best player because the list says so. I
enjoyed your top 20 descriptions the most, and I'm not even
being sarcastic here, although the ratings themselves are quite
silly.
#Post#: 589--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: RaPeDmAN Date: June 20, 2013, 8:30 am
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I like how you guys can write Romans. You should write books,
but oh nvm. nearly all what you write is trash. Alone when I
read drews text he counters himself like 5 times. I am not going
to write such a dumb logn text like you "intelligent" guys did.
Well drew picked 9 categories out?!?!? That just shows that he
is just stupid. Sure there is a little overlapping. But most
what you call "overlapping" is just wrong. Many things are based
on each other and not overlapping. You obv. need awareness to FS
but its also clearly better to FS on a place where you have the
most long sight on the enimie and not just where they pass 1
sec. Locking should pick 9 out?!? Not even close. Lock doesn't
pick any categorie out where you need your brain (awareness, FS)
neither something which is based of more than 1 categorie
(Consistency for example). Well and locking is truely important
since its helps you in teamfights/packs and not only in 1v1
situations and ALSO not only in LW. You noticed that the team
score counts and not your own, this is just partly true. If you
have a good score your team wins(Consitency). AND 10/0 and 20/10
is a big difference since 10kills are 20g(200g in the new
version) for the enimie team which already can throw a whole
game. You are right that 1 thing is maybe more important than
the other, but that they out pick each other is just one of the
most stupid things i ever heard. And YOU wanna talk about
intelligence, gratulations.
Now to you cele. I don't know why 50% of your text is nearly
exactly that what drew said and the other 50% flames about Tom.
It's just useless and a real waste of time.
#Post#: 591--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: Plague Date: June 20, 2013, 9:35 am
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Alright, well.... I made 2 massive posts already and both times
my browser crashed and I lost them, but here goes.
Everyone 'intelligent' knows that this list is trash? Every
intelligent person should know that the list is Tom's opinion
without it needing to be spelt out for them. I respect that Drew
has beef with how the rankings are setup and although I don't
agree with all of it which I will explain in a second, I respect
that he has his own opinion. But goddamn Cele, if you talk about
how bias he is and how some players get privelleges could you
please make your own post less bias? I mean I understand that a
lot of it is your honest opinion but, it's heavily influenced by
your recent battles with Tom. Not only that, but you make heavy
generalisations about the whole community... Clan SanD has about
130 members, and 95% of them do not concern themselves with this
drama, most of which is centred around only 4 people, myself,
you, drew and tom.
I'm afraid to inform you that nowadays, Snipers is not about
proving yourself to be #1 sniper or proving yourself to others
for the vast majority. Snipers has changed, and although I
wasn't there it is extremely obvious when old players return for
a while. Most of em don't stick around, and thats because they
are only concerned with how oldgen they are or how good they
are, which most people don't care about anymore. You are stuck
in the past, and need to wake up. Most players just quietly play
in the background, how can they be Tom's sheep if they barely
interact? None of them have had any influence, they are just
here to play the game. They might want to get better but that's
just so they can enjoy the game more and have some fun. Drew
your inactive, and maybe know 30 people max on that list out of
something that numbers almost 200 now. While Cele plays with us
regularly, I doubt that he pays much attention to your average
Joe sniper player. I could spitball names and you properly would
have very little knowledge of them, but they are what keeps
Snipers going.
You are only concerned with the top players on the list, and
don't understand that the list is not completely about them, in
fact we (I helped rank most of the lower players) spent a lot
more time working on the players lower down, watching replays,
trying to properly gauge their strengths and weaknesses. You say
there is little evidence to rank them, and for you, your surely
right. But I built up this community and I know everyone in it,
and have an OPINION (Do I really need to keep telling you its an
opinion?) on everyone in it. By the way, if this list was about
egos, I think Tom would make a list more similar to the one on
the Pimp forums, rather than doing proper rankings.
This list was not made to tickle peoples egos. This list was
made to log down players for the future when we might be able to
search for them to come back to Snipers, and to remember those
who might be forgotten in the future. I actually spent a long
****ing time going through my bot logs, several hours, to write
down player names from previous clans. We did not rank these
because that would not be fair. Current players are ranked to
perhaps show players areas where they might be able to improve
ACCORDING TO TOM's OPINION. Of course its going to be bias, but
its better than nothing.
This next part I'm going to write is my opinion on both your
points about the inefficiency of the ranking system, so take it
how you will. For me getting a high score and even winning the
game is not a show of skill in Snipers. We all know wind walk,
basecamping etc are the best ways to win, and its better than
using far sight, etc etc. However each part is not ranked
differently because of these discrepancies, because it is about
how skilled a player is at all aspects of the game. That is why
they are all ranked out of 10, to show how good a player is at
all aspects of the game.
I actually disagree with your opinions on whats more important
nevertheless, lynch me if you want, but I think the communities
view on locking is just dumb. Locking is for me still important,
I mean really dude. Your going to have to win a lock at some
point and to do that you need to be good at locking. You don't
spend the whole game in windwalk, especially at the start, and
although picking your fights is also important, there are going
to be situations where your going to face some1 in a locking
contest. If you lose it your dead and your streak and gold spent
on items are gone. The locking category is not all about
reactions although that is important for some locks, its also
about how good you are in timing the lock etc. In a game where
you have to lock people to kill thinking locking skill is
unimportant is rather silly.
Some of the categories are broad and of course some of it
overlaps, but that's a given... it just shows that you need to
be competent in most of the categories to be a SKILLED player,
even if you can feed off downloaders and still win the game. By
the way, obviously we took into account that going 4-0 in 20
minutes is not real efficiency. Once again, we assumed you were
all intelligent enough to realise this. Gavin[SanD] sits on a
hill all game and goes 5-0, but we didn't give him a 10 for
efficiency, this is obvious. But getting a lot of kills and
still feeding deaths so that your 30:30 does not help your team
too much most of the time, so its still important to be
efficient. I can understand why you'd misunderstand some of the
categories, but how is solo skill similar to teamwork? Once
again, its a representation of overall skill in different
aspects of Snipers, regardless of what skills are more important
to get a good score in Snipers.
On a personal note, I've already apologised for banning you
Cele, I should have just talked to you about it first and
explained the situation. As for the recent hacker that was
caught, we have always given leeway for somebodies first
offense, with the exception of kory which was a huge mistake on
my part which I feel bad about now. I'm not giving people second
chances because I like them and then banning others, I've mostly
banned people on second offenses, the others I give a chance to
stream or I watch them closely, including yourself Cele, as well
as several other people who have turned out great for the
community.
Both of you need to stop living in the past, and realise that
the only ones instigating are you two. My opinion is that Tom is
not doing this because he dislikes you Cele, but because he
wants to rid the game of hackers. If you must know most of the
time he encourages me to be harsher on hackers that are caught,
but we do not always agree. I am not his pet, in fact not too
long ago we were at each others throats. Just because we work
together to try to make the community more active does not mean
we are buttbuddies.
#Post#: 592--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: OwL Date: June 20, 2013, 9:48 am
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Lol guys, who cares of this rank? It's a good work y,
And I don't know why some people complain about it. I think that
there is a competition in snipers. People just want to be the
best player, and I am really laughing at it. I knew that this
rank was making a war, just because of jealous people.
Since I am well ranked, some people flame me when I haven't the
best score and this make me laugh, really.
I prefer then to smurf and to be anonymous such as no other
player can think something about me. I never asked penguin to
add me to the list, and I am in and proud. You guys, are in. So
be proud ! :)
#Post#: 593--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: Tom Date: June 20, 2013, 10:01 am
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drewisfat: "So what Tom is implying here is that going 10:0 is
better than 20:10. It's not." False. This is why your
knowledge is not 10, my friend. 10:0 is almost ALWAYS better
than 20:10. The only time it's not is if you lumbered after your
first 10 kills, going 10:10 and then went 10:0. This is
possible, but that is the ONLY situation in which 20:10 is as
good as 10:0.
The first thing I said was that the list is biased and that it
is imperfect, by far. I've also acknowledged that some skills
are more important than others. Everyone knows this, but thank
you for pointing it out after I already did and criticizing me
for it. Much of the overlap you speak of does not exist.
"Anticipation" is more about being able to tell what the enemy
is going to do next when you've already engaged them and
"Awareness" is more about knowing where everyone else is on the
map. Sure, most of the skills rely on each other, and that's the
point. But perhaps I should have made this clearer in my
description, so I apologize.
Of course there could be more attributes. But I did not want to
make the rating system extremely complicated and out of 100 is
obviously simple. As I said, the rating system is secondary to
just having all those names there. If it's causing too much
strife then I should remove the ratings and just leave the
names.
You think that locking isn't a skill, drew? You can pfs someone
and auto them for a kill. However, there are times when you need
to rely on the ability to win an open lock, and that is where
locking comes in. Ironically, your complaining about it. This is
probably the single most unbiased and accurately described skill
of the 10.
Anyway, thank you for your comment. I will take this under
consideration. Also as I've said, you are free to make your own
list. I've already told you I would sticky it right next to
mine. But, of course, we both know that won't happen, since your
best skill appears to be complaining.
Celestial_One:
You might be the most hypocritical person I've ever met. You've
used this "opportunity" to bash me and the database.
Congratulations. Instead of "coming to me in private" and
talking to me personally about improvements that could be made,
you've decided to do exactly what we did while complaining about
it. The really crappy thing is, I came to you and asked you for
advice. I was never able to ask drew for advice, so I'm going
take his criticism and move on.
"Anyone can get good at snipers. Why? Because the community is,
and always has, had crazy egotistical people at its head. The
game has relatively little skill anymore." Here you are,
complaining of a lack of skill, complaining that there is
someone better than you that made the list, complaining that
Plague rated me and that I taught him. So I ask you, who have
you taught? If you want a player to be as good as the great
Celestial_One, shouldn't you teach someone how? Again, you're
free to make your own list. I encourage it!
"Not only does almost every attribute overlap eachother in some
way, it shows relatively little understanding of how the game
works." ... "This isn't lockwars, but wait. LOL! There's an
attribute that focuses on LOCKS. Not only does this encompass
the entire game of snipers, but he vaguely makes it about
locking speed, and winning locks (what?). Clearly learning how
to steplock must be as important as being a good teammate or
farsighting. Not only does this show naivete, but it shows
arrogance."
Wow. Just wow. So I don't know how the game works, yet here you
are complaining that LOCKING is a skill? And that because
locking is a skill, I am egotistical, since I "know I can beat
most in lockwars". Yes, that's exactly why I included the
locking skill. You're right. Learning how to steplock IS
extremely important, because it's a basic skill all players
should possess. So is being able to FS for yourself and a
teammate, which is why I had an FS category. But hey, I probably
threw that one in there because I'm egotistical too. And again,
who have you taught how to use FS like you do so well? But hey,
keep complaining how easy Snipers is.
"and I'm not even going to argue about who should be placed
where." Why not? That is the POINT. It is an open forum,
opinions are free and debate encouraged. The reason you haven't
made a list is either because you're too lazy, you don't care,
or you are afraid of feedback. I know you care, so which is it?
Are you lazy or afraid?
"The important thing is you must realize there is little to no
evidence for any rating in any attribute he gives to anyone." As
I have already said, I rated players based on watching replays
of them or real-time games. If there is a better way to rate
them, please, let me know and I will correct myself.
You have complained that I am #1, yet again. And yet again, your
own rating of me (90) was higher than your rating for yourself
(88). For the final time, make your own list. You could have
come to me and made suggestions, but instead you chose to attack
me on the forum. Me accusing you of maphack had absolutely
nothing to do with the way this database is set up, but I like
how you attempt to pair the two together. Actually, it's
pathetic and insanely hypocritical. I hope your revenge is
working out the way you thought it would.
#Post#: 594--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: Admiral- Date: June 20, 2013, 5:00 pm
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It’s a pity that snipers has become a joke nowadays , list is a
complete joke and mockery of me , and older players the fact
that this clown makes a list is just laughable. When I cared for
this game I ran east with a solid fist. The fact that Tom makes
up his propaganda to tarnish me and others who had a backbone
and testicles to run him off east server , for being a complete
fraud and clown to snipers. Hopefully Euro can grow some balls
and shove this clown outta snipers. Stop being puppets and grow
some balls. gL Euros
#Post#: 595--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: RaPeDmAN Date: June 20, 2013, 5:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OHhh the mighty Legend of Snipers took his part of the
conversation in an unmannered kind of way. Well wasn't much
productive except flaming again.
#Post#: 596--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: Celestial_One Date: June 20, 2013, 5:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]"Anyone can get good at snipers. Why? Because the
community is, and always has, had crazy egotistical people at
its head. The game has relatively little skill anymore." Here
you are, complaining of a lack of skill, complaining that there
is someone better than you that made the list, complaining that
Plague rated me and that I taught him. So I ask you, who have
you taught? If you want a player to be as good as the great
Celestial_One, shouldn't you teach someone how? Again, you're
free to make your own list. I encourage it![/quote]
Whoa there nelly, how can you even say I don't teach people when
I criticize people everygame? I admit I don't always teach
nicely, but then again I'm not a very nice person. If you
honestly believe I haven't taught anyone you're in denial. Heck,
I give pointers everygame. I reflect on allies mistakes and tell
them how they should've approached the situation. Just because I
don't host a private game and label someone as my student
doesn't mean I don't teach. Though I have gone 1 on 1 with a few
SanD members including archie, davidsand, and relentless among
others.
[quote]You might be the most hypocritical person I've ever met.
You've used this "opportunity" to bash me and the database.
Congratulations. Instead of "coming to me in private" and
talking to me personally about improvements that could be made,
you've decided to do exactly what we did while complaining about
it. The really crappy thing is, I came to you and asked you for
advice. I was never able to ask drew for advice, so I'm going
take his criticism and move on.
[/quote]
You get what you give, Tom. You made the list public of my
"maphacking" so I'm making a post on the very same forums you
posted me as a mher on your list. Also for the record I did talk
to you about your list as soon as it came out. In private. You
have done nothing to change anything that I mentioned. My main
points were how do you compare knowledge 10 to knowledge 9 or 8
to 7? Your response was superior knowledge of the game engine
and current map status (or something along these lines). Clearly
there must be a numerical and mathematic approach to this. Not
only this but I mentioned how they all overlapped! You said it
doesn't really matter. Well, it kinda does when you're head
honcho and everyone takes value in your list. At least do it
right or just make it the rankings without the silly ratings.
Also on a side-note don't you want forum activity regardless of
the content? Sure there are flames mixed in but this is the most
active the forums have been. This is the most exciting thread
this forum has seen. This thread has more content than all the
other threads combined.
[quote]Wow. Just wow. So I don't know how the game works, yet
here you are complaining that LOCKING is a skill? And that
because locking is a skill, I am egotistical, since I "know I
can beat most in lockwars". Yes, that's exactly why I included
the locking skill. You're right. Learning how to steplock IS
extremely important, because it's a basic skill all players
should possess. So is being able to FS for yourself and a
teammate, which is why I had an FS category. But hey, I probably
threw that one in there because I'm egotistical too. And again,
who have you taught how to use FS like you do so well? But hey,
keep complaining how easy Snipers is.[/quote]
No, see, the problem is you think attributes like steplocking is
as important as farsighting. You fail to address that. Steplock
takes 5 minutes to learn (you should know this you're the
almighty teacher of it). How long does it take to learn how to
farsight properly? Glad we got that out of the way. NEXT.
[quote]You have complained that I am #1, yet again. And yet
again, your own rating of me (90) was higher than your rating
for yourself (88). For the final time, make your own list. You
could have come to me and made suggestions, but instead you
chose to attack me on the forum. Me accusing you of maphack had
absolutely nothing to do with the way this database is set up,
but I like how you attempt to pair the two together. Actually,
it's pathetic and insanely hypocritical. I hope your revenge is
working out the way you thought it would.[/quote]
Did you even read my post? I didn't complain that I think you're
a player by an inch. I complained that you are holding different
standards for ratings. If you post a list with your name
included YOU SHOULD BE THE ONE RATING YOURSELF. DUH?
[quote]Everyone 'intelligent' knows that this list is trash?
Every intelligent person should know that the list is Tom's
opinion without it needing to be spelt out for them. I respect
that Drew has beef with how the rankings are setup and although
I don't agree with all of it which I will explain in a second, I
respect that he has his own opinion. But goddamn Cele, if you
talk about how bias he is and how some players get privelleges
could you please make your own post less bias? I mean I
understand that a lot of it is your honest opinion but, it's
heavily influenced by your recent battles with Tom. Not only
that, but you make heavy generalisations about the whole
community... Clan SanD has about 130 members, and 95% of them do
not concern themselves with this drama, most of which is centred
around only 4 people, myself, you, drew and tom. I'm afraid to
inform you that nowadays, Snipers is not about proving yourself
to be #1 sniper or proving yourself to others for the vast
majority. Snipers has changed, and although I wasn't there it is
extremely obvious when old players return for a while. Most of
em don't stick around, and thats because they are only concerned
with how oldgen they are or how good they are, which most people
don't care about anymore. You are stuck in the past, and need to
wake up. Most players just quietly play in the background, how
can they be Tom's sheep if they barely interact? None of them
have had any influence, they are just here to play the game.
They might want to get better but that's just so they can enjoy
the game more and have some fun. Drew your inactive, and maybe
know 30 people max on that list out of something that numbers
almost 200 now. While Cele plays with us regularly, I doubt that
he pays much attention to your average Joe sniper player. I
could spitball names and you properly would have very little
knowledge of them, but they are what keeps Snipers going. You
are only concerned with the top players on the list, and don't
understand that the list is not completely about them, in fact
we (I helped rank most of the lower players) spent a lot more
time working on the players lower down, watching replays, trying
to properly gauge their strengths and weaknesses. You say there
is little evidence to rank them, and for you, your surely right.
But I built up this community and I know everyone in it, and
have an OPINION (Do I really need to keep telling you its an
opinion?) on everyone in it. By the way, if this list was about
egos, I think Tom would make a list more similar to the one on
the Pimp forums, rather than doing proper rankings. [/quote]
Do you need to keep repeating it's an opinion? What's with most
of this fluff about average joe players? Obviously I know most
of the average joe players. I play on a daily basis. Most of the
community is average joe players. Obviously I don't know kids
you recruited last week that keep changing akas, how am I
supposed to know?
You obviously didn't read my post very well. I never once
criticized the placed rankings. I criticized the standards at
which he ranked people, and I criticized that he didn't rank
himself. What makes one have a knowledge 10 and a knowledge 9?
How do you even compare such a thing? As I've said before most
of the numbers are a load of bull.
[quote]Lol guys, who cares of this rank? It's a good work y,
And I don't know why some people complain about it. I think that
there is a competition in snipers. People just want to be the
best player, and I am really laughing at it. I knew that this
rank was making a war, just because of jealous people.
Since I am well ranked, some people flame me when I haven't the
best score and this make me laugh, really.
I prefer then to smurf and to be anonymous such as no other
player can think something of me. I never asked penguin to add
me to the list, and I am in and proud. You guys, are in. So be
proud ![/quote]
Owl probably doesn't realize he has supported almost every
argument in my post. He laughs at the rankings. He says other
people take value in the list and flame him for not being higher
up. He says people want to be the best. And most of all: He has
to go on akas because people he doesn't know are picking him and
flaming his rating. Everything in his post screams egotistical
list.
And I've used this opportunity to bash you? Obviously. You
called me a maphacker and refused to believe it was a warcraft
bug. Not only this but recently I found out I left my stream on
for an alarm to wake me up. You and Plague had some SICK plans
to trick me into joining a game once I stopped the alarm and
checked chattens, change the motd to "all maphackers will be
banned including Cele" while I was in the lobby, and then ban me
from the channel and make me go to "GLS" while you and plague go
troll me on your akas. You're trying to call me immature?
Whatever happened to a fair trial? You were incredibly convinced
of my guilt the second you saw that replay. DON'T EVEN DENY IT.
I had to go to lengths to be considered legitimized. I set up a
stream and streamed every game for you clowns. Yet I still had
to go through all that nonsense and idiocy. You really showed
your true manipulative colors that day. Not only were you trying
to convince people I maphacked, but some of the older players
even disagreed with you telling you it was most likely a bug.
You want me to treat you with respect? You get what you give.
YO It's just coincidental that yesterday you brought up that
"you had a great quote from yesterday". Yeah it really was a
great quote. I have a great quote of you. It's called the SSL.
#Post#: 598--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Nonsense That Is Tom's Ranking System Explained
By: drewisfat Date: June 21, 2013, 3:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Tom is DOUBLING DOWN on his anti-math position ;D ;D ;D
The discussion is on "Efficiency". I think that 20-10 is just
as good a record as 10-0. Here's my evidence for it:
20 - 10 = 10 - 0
Tom thinks 10-0 much better than 20-10. Here is his evidence
for it:
"False."
Boy sure looks like a tough call who is going to win this
debates!!
Given this anti-math stance, I'm not surprised you see
absolutely nothing wrong with your skills overlapping or being
of different values. When you assign grossly inaccurate
weightings to different "skills" you are left with a result that
their accumulated score will not be reflective of their overall
skill as a snipers player. I assumed this would be a bad thing
because:
"Snipers Skill Level (SSL): This is an all-inclusive score of
how skilled a player is at the game of Snipers."
So your ranking list is poor, and not just because I disagree
strongly with your opinion or that it's biased, but because the
evaluation system used could not possibly give good results.
P.S. you must have totally misread my thoughts on "locking".
Not saying it didn't matter, but saying that with the definition
given, it is the ONLY thing that mattered. After all being able
to lock them before they lock you is what decides the score. The
rest is relevant only in how it affects your locking ability.
~~~~ Rapedman quote of the day: "I like how you guys can write
Romans." ~~~
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