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#Post#: 1598--------------------------------------------------
NYS Canal Corporation Prepares the Public for Upcoming EEIP Zoom
Call
DIR By: Doug K
Date: July 12, 2021, 3:05 pm
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Just Released to the NYS Canal Corporation website: Read this
to familiarize yourself with the Zoom Meeting Sign-in process,
if you are new to it.
HTML https://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/EEIP_Public_Comment.pdf
And hopefully NO ONE will complain that they "didn't know how to
use Zoom" as yet another criticism for NYPA, or the Canal
Corporation. They are doing their best to enable a successful
meeting for public input, now if the public will reciprocate by
not bogging down a Zoom Meeting with personal opinions, and
deflection to topics not centered on Public Safety, Canal
Embankments & Dam Safety.
#Post#: 1606--------------------------------------------------
NYS Canal Corporation seemed "unprepared" to field
QUESTIONS about EEIP work from the Public
DIR By: Doug K
Date: July 14, 2021, 10:01 am
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Everyone shows up at a Zoom call, for the Canal Corporation
Embankment work, and we all hear crickets... planned public
speakers didn't talk much. Bill Smith did try to make a case for
not clearing Pittsford, but wasn't accurate on his assessment of
canal danger, or the Towns "right" to keep Pittsford residents
living below "unsafe canal embankments" that need to be cleared
for PUBLIC SAFETY.
Bill Smith, can you READ? Sir, YOU don't have the RIGHT to keep
Canal Neighbors, or the Pittsford Residents living BELOW unkept
earthen canal embankments...that the OWNER of the property has
cited as UNSAFE and in need of REPAIR!
The ECNA was even caught off guard and only had a small
statement that "most neighbors" have more questions, that
normally would have been fielded in past Public meetings. That's
because the ONLY thing allowed was a 3 minute statement or
comment about either the EEIP Guidebook or the Environmental
Impact Statement required for SEQRA. You could sense that some
of the public was immediately "muted".
No Questions, no rants, and no one from the Facebook group
opposing the Canal Embankment work showed up, so I guess
"mission accomplished" as viewed from the NYPA side of the
equation. In fact the head of the NYS Canal Corporation, Mr.
Brian Stratton, was no where to be heard, no comment, no setting
the "mood" for the meeting.
The ECNA had submitted nearly 40 Comments or Questions, in two
documents, prior to the meeting and nothing was covered. Mainly
because most of OUR COMMENTS were in the form of "a question".
Like on Jeopardy...
So we will WAIT now to see if we hear back on the comments &
questions most asked by Erie Neighbors. And we also want to
share them with you now here. If the Canal Corporation won't
take a Q & A session "live" we will just have to do it through
the ECNA Forum.
Hopefully more neighbors start realizing that a Facebook group
is not going to "save the day" and that they need to start
thinking about how to best "control and deal with" the removal
of trees in their neighborhoods... because in the end this
statement is TRUE:
Unsafe Canal Embankment Clearing and Inspection is NOT going to
be stopped
All unwanted and invasive embankment vegetation WILL come down
because the NYS Canal Corporation HAS shown that the alternative
of doing nothing...will lead to the possible drowning of New
York residents living below the Canal Embankments, and a flood
of water that is about 66 million gallons of wave, running
through a 150 foot long breach in the canal. And that is the
possible "magnitude" for ANY breach.
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com/erie-canal-embankment-integrity-program-(eip)/eeip-draft-now-published/?message=1605
Let us know what YOU think about the Canal Corporation's Zoom
Meeting on EEIP...and remember.. try to be nice. After all, they
are trying to help restore public safety along the Canal and
keep the "ditch" operating for another century, it's a
monumental task if you consider the shape it's in now.
And the Meeting Host, well she was very cordial, but only acted
as "initiator and timer" for comments.
[attachimg=1]
#Post#: 1607--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYS Canal Corporation Prepares the Public for Upcoming EEIP
Zoom Call
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: July 14, 2021, 10:55 am
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Here is what I wrote to Mr Smith and a few others, regarding his
comments today.
I would like to contest Bill Smith's comments this morning in
the EEIP Zoom Call.
He referred to an expert witness, meaning emeritus Professor
Donald Gray, who stated that trees helped consolidate a wooded
slope.
see.
HTML https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/testimony-in-question-vegetation-on-dams/
Here is a transcript of that post.
In the recent court case when an injunction was filed against
the New York Power Authority to stop vegetation removal from the
canal Earthen Embankment Dams between Brighton, Pittsford and
Fairport, Mr Donald H Gray (Professor Emeritus) was called on
to provide testimony.
In the petitioners reply Index 2018-945 it clearly states on
page 4
Just so this court is not misled into thinking that the presence
of trees on canal embankments is not universally scorned,
petitioners submit with their reply papers the affidavit of a
highly-qualified and distinguished geotechnical engineer who
opines that trees growing on the canal embankments enhance
structural stability and public safety, and the removal trees
will reduce embankment stability and integrity. See affidavit of
Donald H. Gray, P.E., sworn to February 21, 2018 (“Dr. Gray
Aff.”
I searched the Internet to find all documents written by Dr
Gray, and in every case, his articles were written explicitly
about NATURAL WOODED SLOPES being clear-cut.
This was obviously a completely different scenario than a levee
or an embankment dam, so I wrote to Dr Gray and asked him if he
had any documents referring to levees or embankment dams.
Here is his reply.
Earth dams and levees are both constructed embankments.
They differ mainly in their purpose and type of hydraulic
loading. Earth dams are constructed across a stream or river
to create an impoundment. The impoundment provides water
storage, flood control, and recreational opportunities. An
earthen levee is constructed parallel to a river or stream to
prevent flooding of adjacent low-lying areas during periods of
high water. An earthen levee is subjected mainly to
tangential-hydraulic forces (scour) whereas a dam is subjected
to dynamic hydraulic forces (wave action).
I don’t know of any earth dams where woody vegetation was
purposely planted or allowed to grow on a face of the dam. Such
is not the case with earthen levees where vegetation can often
be found growing on both the landward and water sides.
An earthen dam is designed and built to prevent overtopping and
minimize through-flow (seepage). Overtopping of an earth dam
is prevented by building the dam high enough. By comparison
earthen levees have been built mainly to withstand breaching
that can occur during overtopping, through-flow and lateral
scour. The presence of vegetation on a levee helps prevent
erosion that can occur during overtopping and lateral scour.
I’ve attached a revised version of the article sent to you
earlier that examines the risks and benefits of woody vegetation
on earthen levees.
According to Dr Gray, The Erie Canal Embankments are not
Levees, but Earthen Embankment dams. The body of water, once
called Oxbow Lake, behind the dam is a reservoir, not subject to
‘scouring’ as there is no lateral flow, and it is constructed
across the flow of the stream flowing at The Oxbow.
I believe Dr Gray was misled into thinking these were wooded
slopes or levees, as he had not actually visited the site.
“I don’t know of any earth dams where woody vegetation was
purposely planted or allowed to grow on a face of the dam.“
So, according to Dr. Gray, he states that our canal embankments
are indeed dams, for the following reasons.
1. They are constructed across streams.
2. They have a constant level of water, maintained by spillways.
3. There is no lateral flow of water so no ‘scouring’ of the
banks is in effect.
4. They are subject to Hydraulic Dynamic forces – pressure and
waves.
5. They are not designed to over-top, hence the spillways.
6. Trees are not allowed on dams (See D H Gray, USACE, FEMA,
ASDSO)
6. Phreatic line problems can cause seepage, boils etc.
Levees on the other hand constitute –
1. Embankments are build parallel to the water flow of a river
or streams.
2. They are only operational in time of flood. (Holding back
water)
4. They are designed to withstand over-topping.
5. Trees help withstand scouring caused by rapid flow of water
in flood situations.
6. No spillways build into a levee.
7. Phreatic line problems virtually non existent.
He also sent me the following document about Levees: Woody
Vegetation on Earthen Levees 2
Finally, Mr Smith stated they had won their case in court in
today's Zoom call Nothing is further from the truth, otherwise
we wouldn't be here today.
All that happened (I was at the hearing) was NYPA and the NYSCC
were instructed to carry out SEQR study, (which they have done),
despite the NYDEC initially telling them it wasn't necessary.
This EIS and Guidebook for EEIP are both the result of that
Court Case
And now it appears that Mr. Smith doesn't like what he asked
for, or simply doesn't agree with the facts.
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