DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Erie Canal Neighbors Association
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Perinton/Fairport Canal Community Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 822--------------------------------------------------
What did opposing Canal Embankment Safety accomplish for
Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton Residents?
DIR By: Doug K
Date: October 12, 2019, 11:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS THE ORIGINAL UNEDITED VERSION OF AN EARLIER POST
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com/perinton-canal-embankment-discussion/transition-to-embankment-integrity-program-was-costly-for-brighton-pittsford-per/
Recently someone asked the ECNA how much the new Earthen
Embankment Integrity Program (EEIP) could change the landscape
along the Erie Canal over the original Embankment Restoration
Project (ERP). Of course the question was stated much
differently... it was more like this
"How much has the STCC's OPPOSITION in Brighton, Pittsford &
Perinton (BP&P) to the Erie Canal Safety Program cost it's
residents?"
The answer is astounding...all gathered from the paperwork
submitted so far by the Canal Corporation on it's State
Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) analysis. You see the issue
is that the REMOVAL of BP&P from the original Project allowed
the Canal Corporation to also RECONSIDER the original scope of
the Embankment safety work and rethink how far it's safety
program should extend.
They changed it quite a bit. Here's the original EERP Planned
Work with the map of the areas affected and a table with total
acreage affected
[attachimg=1]
If you look at the numbers here's how these three villages broke
down in the EERP plan
Brighton - 3.5 miles of Erie Canal passes through the Town and
the original work would have affected 15 acres total
Pittsford - 4.5 miles of Canal pass through the Town & Village,
the original work area was 13.5 acres
Perinton - 8.25 canal miles in the Town of Perinton & Village of
Fairport total, by far the most of any Town, and 16 acres were
affected
Here is what the new Embankment Integrity Program has for
"proposed & potential" development land areas.. Maps and figures
are from the released information on the Canal Corp Dam
Integrity Website -
HTML http://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/index.html
[attachimg=2]
And here's a summary comparison of Affected Acreage by
Town/Village between the Original & the Current Canal Embankment
Repair Plans
[attachimg=3]
That's right... there is an additional 1413 acres of ADJACENT
canal land that has now fallen into the new Canal Public Safety
Program known as EEIP in the Towns of Brighton, Pittsford &
Perinton (including Villages of Pittsford & Fairport)
And who can residents thank for this extra attention to safety?
There is a group that is responsible for this increase in
potentially cleared embankments, they can be thanked for
insuring public safety is first & foremost in Brighton,
Pittsford & Perinton. Who is that group you ask? It's Facebook's
Stop the Canal Clear-Cut (STCC) led by Fairport's own... Ms.
Agte, Ms. Maier & Ms. Gouldthorpe & Ms. Meuwissen
Next time you see these concerned citizens be sure to thank them
for talking your Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton Town Leaders
into bringing the NYS Canal Embankment Safety Project to Court
and having the original work stopped in 2018. This canal safety
work could have been done by now for you all, but it's apparent
that it's only just begun. Residents may want to rethink their
votes in the upcoming Town & Village elections. While they are
doing that the same residents may also want to rethink who they
choose to speak for them with the NYS Canal Corporation.
The STCC Leaders certainly should not be speaking on behalf of
the residents in Towns & Villages of eastern Monroe County.
What's happened so far, using the STCC rhetoric of ignoring
safety to keep "shade" appears to have had unforeseen
consequences and unintended results.
After all, shade falling on someone may not kill them, but the
dangerous tree creating that shade falling on them just might do
the trick.
The folks... the numbers don't lie. There are 1000 more football
fields worth of potential canal embankment repairs on the slate
for eastern Monroe County. Surely the Stop the Canal Clear-cut
group wasn't trying to ADD more trees to be cut down, but they
sure did a great job accomplishing that very feat.
Bravo!
#Post#: 875--------------------------------------------------
An Update on Perinton & Fairport Erie Canal Safety
DIR By: Doug K
Date: December 22, 2019, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Can you believe this Stop the Canal ClearCut (STCC) Group these
days?
They seem to not like the fact that have been called out
PUBLICLY for their continued persistence ignoring BOTH the
safety of their own community as well as their own ignorance in
understanding why recent NY State Canal Corporation work, aptly
named the Earthen Embankment INTEGRITY Program, is understood to
be a Public Safety program. That EEIP program, being drafted by
the Canal Corporation, will REPAIR the many unsafe dams that
line our sections of the NYS Barge Canal System as well as
across the state.
You see this Stop the Canal Work group & leaders just don't want
to talk about safety at all. Their answer is no danger, no
unsafe embankments... leave the canal alone... there is
"nothing" wrong with it. The embankment safety concern is all
made up by the NY Canal Corporation to spend hard-earned
taxpayer dollars... all just a bunch of hogwash. The NYS Canal
System IS falling apart...and this group wants to simply ignore
that fact to try and “save the trees” causing the unsafe dam
problems in the first place.
These leaders are saying this after almost TWO years of being
told they are wrong by everyone from the NY State Governor down,
to us, the “broadcasters” in the ECNA. The STCC and its
Leadership are still denying any canal embankment safety
concerns exists to this day.
Even though…
Even though the NY Canal Corporation and their parent, the New
York Power Authority (NYPA), have been working diligently to
correct the issues with the UNSAFE DAMS that some State Agencies
were told about more than FIVE years ago.
Even though every Federal & State authority & publication on the
topic of Earthen Dam Safety says that trees do not belong on the
outboard or inboard slopes of any dams. Go look at this video on
Erie Canal Safety prepared SPECIFICALLY for the Town of Perinton
& Fairport Village.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbuJ31xvoOA
Even though outside experts, contacted directly by the Stop the
Canal ClearCut LEADERS has told them that the Canal Embankment
are indeed Earthen DAMS and as such need to be cleared to insure
the dam structure isn't further compromised. When confronted by
experts they sought out themselves, they quickly closed their
Facebook Page in response..it has since reopened
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/stcc-closes-it's-door!/msg171/#msg171
And then along come Mike Caswell and Doug Kucmerowski to try and
steer them to the truth, a truth that they so ardently try to
avoid. Here's what the ECNA has always been saying, which is
that the Canal Corporation is correct about safety.
The NYS Canal Embankments are a danger...they do need to be
cleared, all of them that are raised over neighboring
properties.
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com/general-discussion/of-course-this-is-still-about-public-safety-why-wouldnt-it-be/
We also took the recent STCC "update" made by one of the Stop
the Clear Cut Leaders, Ms. Maier, and showed why the status quo
has not changed. That was not received well, no doubt because
they could not argue with the logic or truth we presented.
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/borden-maier-is-at-it-again!/
ATTENTION Perinton ! Your Next Door App has been hacked!
This ignorance of safety by the STCC also has become an issue on
Nextdoor Fairport where Mike Caswell has tried to warn others in
his community about Erie Canal Safety. But Mike's message isn't
allowed on Nextdoor, too controversial to say people, the
public, is in danger from within the community by mis-guided
citizens.
Too much controversy for Nextdoor, which seems to want to run
like Sesame Street,,sunny days and all friends. Not like any
REAL neighbors who talk openly about issues that matter and try
to resolve them for the benefit of the ENTIRE neighborhood.
Instead Nextdoor Fairport has been taken over by a group of
people who only want ONE side of the discussion allowed, their
own side. They have rigged the Next Door communication system,
have their friends in key positions to dictate what you read and
who gets their view posted on topics that matter to everyone in
Fairport.
This one group is trying to drown out the voice of Mike Caswell,
one of the few trying to save Fairport from another types of
drowning… like from an embankment breach and canal flood.
And who is this group who have kidnapped NextDoor Fairport?
Why it's the Stop the Canal Clear Cut Group from Facebook and
their leader/co-founders.. Ms Agte and Ms Maier.
They once again have cried foul, ONLY because the truth has left
a mark on their egos , and they are very upset they have been
treated so "badly". They have worked to suppress and remove any
and all dissenting comments from Nextdoor and those in
opposition to their “Erie Canal crusade”.
The truth is that the STCC & it's Leaders have not been treated
any more badly than they have treated Mr. Caswell...by calling
him a Liar and creating an atmosphere where safety & truth takes
second place to ego & opinion. Mike Caswell should be thanked
for his persistence to insure his community is kept safe, not
chastised by those who can’t fathom the issues of embankment
safety in the first place.
The STCC & it's Leaders have not been treated any more badly
than they have treated the NY Canal Corporation...calling them
liars & incompetent to fix their own safety issues. Nothing
could be further from the truth, even worse, this group
criticizes those who are trying to fix the safety issues when
their ONLY defense to the safety question is to just ignore
it…at the peril of the portions of the community living below
these aging dams.
The STCC & it's Leaders have not been treated any more badly
than they have treated the Governor of NY State... calling him a
liar in note after note stating they still can’t understand the
issues with Erie Canal Safety. Same Complaint, same reply…but
they still just don’t want to believe they are so wrong about
safety. It’s our money they are wasting.
You see anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same belief that the
Erie Canal is a "Safe Canal", the one promoted & pedaled by the
STCC Group, is eventually labeled a liar at some point by their
Leadership of Maier & Agte.
Then the rest of the members, like Meuwissen, Donk & Gouldthorpe
& Gallagher, all jump on saying how everyone is wrong except
them. Those same STCC Leaders are trying desperately to pedal
this to ALL of the Town & Village Leaders
(Just a hint, leaving three towns, a total population of well
over 115,000 souls in DANGER from unsafe & overgrown dams, that
still aren't cleared, is treating MANY MANY people badly.)
WAKE UP PERINTON!!!
Perinton & Fairport Village residents should wake up and tell
these Stop the Canal Cutting group "NO THANKS in all caps.
Do it by banning their divisive & dangerous rhetoric before
something does happen, an embankment failure being the worse
case scenario. If that happens we will hear from the STCC group,
pointing blame and saying the Canal Corp’s response to safety
issues wasn’t fast enough. This from the same group who stood in
the way of safety… and worked with three towns to sue a State
Safety Project. You see they seem to complain just to hear the
sound of their own voices it seems.
Fairport & Perinton residents should stand in unity against this
ill-fated group and do it before our unsafe Erie Canal Dams
become just another of our country’s FAILED earthen embankment
statistic, along with the catastrophic floods that follow.Floods
that would level much of Perinton & Fairport New York , and may
someday be talked about on the national evening news if nothing
is done to fix our State's aging canal embankment structures.
What a tragedy that would be folks, sadly one that is being
encouraged by the rantings of the STCC, who seem to have a
different agenda than the safety of New York residents.
#Post#: 897--------------------------------------------------
Perinton's Role in the NY Canal Corporation Embankment Integrity
Program
DIR By: Doug K
Date: January 11, 2020, 12:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If it hasn't sunk in yet to those living on the east side of
Monroe County, the thought that your canal embankments will
remain littered with dead, dangerous trees is fast becoming a
fleeting memory.
Time marches on and the NY Canal Corporation is working
diligently on their General Inspection & Maintenance Guide for
Embankment Integrity. That will be completed for review sometime
in the next few months and all of this will make out local news
cycle once again. Some will be trying to fight against the much
needed safety changes in the spirit of "environmentalism" and
others will be supporting the safety improvements that the NYCC
& the State of NY have said are long overdue.
What will change is that the whole embankment clearing process
will now be "legal". The group fighting against the work has
asked for a State Environmental Quality Review as part of their
earlier lawsuit and it has been done... those papers went on
record in October of 2019. That SEQR review and subsequent
documents now spell out exactly what has to happen... and why.
[attachimg=1]
The next section of the SEQR form, goes on to layout the 4 basic
GUIDELINES that will be followed as part of the Canal's Earthen
Embankment Integrity Program or EEIP as it's called. This is
what will drive any and ALL embankment work in the future...
including what happens in Perinton, Brighton, Pittsford...and
all other towns & villages along the Canal System in NY.
[attachimg=2]
And the NY Canal Corporation has ALREADY stated their desired
method to clear their embankment safety problems away. It was
stated on their EEIP Webpage that was created just for this
Integrity Program...at the request of both it's Neighbors, and
those opposing the canal clearing work. If anyone is thinking
that the Canal Corporation can shirk it's responsibilities of
maintaining Public Safety along the NYS Canal System they have
spelled out their plans very well here:
HTML http://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/overview.html
[attachimg=3]
Now to the SUBJECT of this Posting... Perinton's Role in this
Embankment Integrity Program work.
Well it's quite simple if you think about it. The original
embankment project that was called Embankment Restoration ran
from Lockport to Lyons but three towns fought to be removed from
that work.. and did manage to do that. The result of that
effort...
Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton have now become Ground Zero for
the initial startup of the new Embankment Integrity PROGRAM.
And there is no stopping due to Environmental Review
Paperwork...it's done.
So once again these three towns get to chose again how they
receive and if they will accept public safety initiatives, being
run by a NY State Agency, that is correcting overdue maintenance
issues on one of the oldest man-made canals in the country.
These towns can fight against the methods of embankment repair
in ignorance or they can understand and accept that this is the
only way to fix unsafe dams...
In the end Perinton residents can fight against a Public Safety
Program or chose to support it, but remember...
The canal embankments are still unsafe.
The canal embankments can't fix themselves.
The canal embankments condition can only worsen with time.
The ECNA has only one thing to say... Chose Wisely This Time.
#Post#: 908--------------------------------------------------
Proof that Perinton is VERY informed about the Erie Canal
Embankment Integrity Program
DIR By: Doug K
Date: January 15, 2020, 11:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As I've said before... being an Engineer is a curse at times and
also a benefit. Here's a little bit of information from the Erie
Canal Neighbor's Association Forum... after some annual January
house cleaning. Just a little "supporting data" for my statement
in the last post about Perinton being the "Center of the
Universe" for the new Canal Embankment Integrity Program...
numbers don't lie.
ECNA Forum INFO:
We have 10 Main Forum Boards with topics ranging from General
Information to NY Canal Corp Announcements. We have Forum Boards
dedicated to the new Embankment Integrity work as well as the
original Dam Remediation project known as EERP.. when
Restoration was the "keyword". We have discussion boards for
Adopt a Trail, some that help Canal Neighbors & Property Owners
near the Canal. There's no more than 25 posts in most forum
boards, with a couple exceptions.
We have 2 Forum Discussion Boards in the ECNA that are dedicated
to Perinton specifically, where the real battle for canal
embankment safety is still being waged. There is a group
opposing this Canal Embankment Integrity Program stating there
is no safety issue and trees help keep the dams in place. We
created a discussion board dedicated to opposing these
ridiculous claims by their nickname here.. The STCC.
We also have an ECNA forum board dedicated to the Town of
Perinton & Village of Fairport that is a general embankment
discussion board. It's also used to link posts to the Nextdoor
Fairport app, where Mr. Caswell occasionally places some
information on Canal Embankment Safety.
What the DATA says:
We have literally thousands of posting views... there is a
counter for each post visible on this ECNA Forum App. What's
really amazed us lately is that the two Perinton-centric
discussion boards represent about 50% of all ECNA Forum views
total. It's obvious that Perinton is listening to the messages..
both the support of Embankment Safety and also the voices from
the STCC who oppose changing the canal, even for public safety
reasons.
The picture below shows the Top 10 Posts from each of these two
forum boards... really amazing. If you want to know what to read
first regarding this Erie Canal Embankment Program.. these posts
most likely say it all.
[attachimg=1]
Go figure huh?
#Post#: 1308--------------------------------------------------
Canal Embankment Safety - What Perinton Leaders don't want to
face.
DIR By: Doug K
Date: September 29, 2020, 10:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Probably one of the last posts regarding the safety of
Perinton's Erie Canal Neighbors that I will be making. The Erie
Canal safety message is never going to be heard there, because
it doesn't sit well with local "management" there. And I have
learned that if management doesn't listen, there's no sense
talking or trying to explain a problem or seek a solution.
I've finally come to realize that this communication issue isn't
with a Facebook group in Perinton fighting against Erie Canal
safety repairs, though they have done a good job at being a
"thorn in the side" of the New York State Canal Corporation. No
the idea of this group believing they could stop a public safety
program, being run by two NY agencies tasked with the job of
protecting NY citizens and keeping them safe, was laughable at
best, but a rather sad indictment of the community that
supported them.
This Facebook group is dying away, along with the thought that
fighting against a Public Safety Program was ever a good idea in
the first place.
The real communication problem & total lack of understanding of
these Canal Embankment safety problems, lies with the LEADERSHIP
of the Town of Perinton and those other towns who just didn't
like being the center of attention of this NYSCC Vegetation
Management Program. It's the fault of Pittsford, Perinton &
Fairport government officials who were stunned when the Canal
Corporation made them the CENTERPIECE of their Public Safety
efforts to fix unsafe canal embankments across the State. When
they saw their community name plastered all over the FIRST
presentation of the Vegetation Management Program, they all
tweaked and said "Not us, not our community, it's all lies".
Let's go back to the "roots" of this Canal Corporation
embankment safety work, the Vegetation Management Program.
Here's parts of the Presentation that was given to residents of
Pittsford & Perinton in Late 2017... and note who the INTENDED
audience has always been. I was at this meeting and spoke up for
Erie Canal Neighbor safety, and also to support the program.
Maybe the Engineer in me saw the folly of fighting AGAINST
public safety a bit quicker than most, it's just something you
don't do.
You can view the original presentation on the Canal Corporation
website.
HTML http://www.canals.ny.gov/vegetation/VM%20Outreach%20Deck.pdf
Many have forgotten how all of this started...
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
After talking about what happens in the event of a canal
embankment failure, and also showing the last one in the modern
time of the canal, the NYS Canal Corporation gave a direct
notice to Perinton & Pittsford about the danger in their own
community. Look at these slides and pictures.
[attachimg=3]
Take a look at where this flood hazard danger is... almost 1/2
of the Town of Perinton, including Brentwood & Crystal Springs
neighborhoods. There's an elementary school in the possible
flood path, and all that folks in Perinton are concerned about
seems to be the ravings of a Facebook group saying "everything
is fine, no danger here". Once again it's seems like the
messenger did their job, but the people who heard the message
just wanted "blood", because they didn't like what was being
said about "their towns & villages".
[attachimg=4]
Sadly this presentation was not received the way it should have
been by the local governments, or the citizens they serve. So
what did the Canal Corporation do? Did they quit and say "oh
well we tried to save them"? Nope, they tried to warn the local
Perinton community with a video of this embankment safety
program on YouTube. That also seemed to miss it's mark as the
community & residents are still answering Town Of Perinton
survey questions about continuing their "fight against canal
safety"
Maybe want to review that video again Perinton...
After all the DANGER hasn't gone away just because of a Facebook
group or the denial of your Town Leaders
HTML https://youtu.be/bbuJ31xvoOA
Here's a last slide mix from that presentation, again it
couldn't get any more specific on the safety problem, the root
causes, the solutions, and why it was important to the eastside
communities to take note of the danger in their midst. Suggest
that these communities go and take a fresh look at the whole
presentation and think about the safety message the ECNA has
also tried to progress.
[attachimg=5]
None of this has changed the important facts:
1) The Erie Canal raised embankments are still unsafe,
vegetation management is still needed.
2) The NYS Canal Corporation is still planning on getting their
embankment safety work done.
3) The final touches on an Earthen Canal Embankment Clearing
Guidebook is almost complete (part of their new SEQR
requirements).
4) NYPA has cleared all of the Article 78 hurdles that the Towns
of Pittsford & Perinton had thrown in their path as a result of
their lawsuit (and maybe from listening to a Facebook group that
steered them wrong about suing public safety work.)
What has changed is that maybe the NYSCC will pay closer
attention to those who misrepresent the truth in the future on
their new EEIP work
What hasn't changed is the simple fact that some eastside
government officials will still stick their heads in the sand
regarding community safety along the Erie Canal.
These "civic leaders" seem to care more about being on the right
side of "social media trends" than on the right side of public
safety in their own canal towns & villages.
And that issue my friends can easily be fixed the next time
Perinton, Pittsford & Fairport go to the Voting Booths and make
their voices heard loud and clear regarding the SAFETY of
Perinton, Pittsford & all residents in between.
#Post#: 1309--------------------------------------------------
Erie Canal Embankment Safety - Learn a Lesson from a Local
Community that didn't
DIR By: Doug K
Date: September 29, 2020, 10:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If anyone is thinking that leaving unsafe Erie Canal embankment
dams UNREPAIRED in their own communities for whatever reason, it
might be a good idea to see how a few local communities FAILED
to see the signs of danger and chose to fight against public
safety programs aimed at fixing an aging Erie Canal.
Worth a read, especially if you aren't sure about the facts
regarding Erie Canal Embankment work.
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com/perinton-canal-embankment-discussion/canal-embankment-safety-what-perinton-leaders-don't-want-to-face/
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 1