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#Post#: 546--------------------------------------------------
FEMA rules do not require Erie Canal Neighbors to purchase
mandatory Flood Insurance
DIR By: Doug K
Date: May 3, 2019, 10:48 am
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This ECNA moderator had an interesting conversation recently
with the New York State’s FEMA Risk Mitigation representative
regarding the Erie Canal Embankment Integrity program. The main
topic was of course Flood Insurance requirements, which has been
a topic many are interested in in this Forum. Seems many have a
Love-Hate relationship with clearing Embankment Dams in upstate
NY these days, love to see the change to safer dams but hate to
think it might lead to a need for mandatory flood insurance for
those living below them.
I am happy to report that what I heard was all good news for
Erie Canal Neighbors.
FEMA will not be changing any Flood Zone Maps as a result of the
current work being done on Erie dams… period… end of discussion.
The reasons cited were many but the main two that stuck were on
FEMA policy, and also the unique design features of the Erie
Canal. I’ll give a summary of each so everyone understands the
concepts.
FEMA Policy on Embankment Dams
FEMA does not currently issue flood zones or require National
Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) for any property owners living
below Embankment Dams. They do not really have any jurisdiction
to do so either. Most of the work done around Dams of any type
is on a Local or State level, and states can write their own
rules when it comes to these flood control structures. Once
again the idea around safety of citizens is founded on a bottom
up approach to rules, regulations and laws, Local government is
the primary source of rules, and then to State if needed and if
the Federal level is reached it is more about safety funding
then making safety rules. If States comply with Federal
Guidelines they get more “support” funding for their activities
around Dam Safety. He also stated that while the Embankments do
qualify as Dams, under new Dam Safety Program laws, it is still
up to the State to adopt those guidelines locally.
States normally rely on their local Dept. Of Environmental
Conservation (like NYDEC) to decide what the rules will be
regarding Dams and each state’s Dam Registry. Some states in our
country do not even have a State Dam Registry, like Alabama. NY
Rules are being reviewed at the current time, but will have no
affect on surrounding FEMA Flood Mapping.
Erie Canal Design & FEMA Flood Ratings
The inside of the Erie Canal has a FEMA Flood Zone Rating of
A1, which means it has a less than 1% chance of flooding. The
surrounding areas of the canal normally have a FEMA Flood Zones
rating of X, which is slight to moderate flood potential, and a
Zone X does NOT require mandatory flood insurance through NFIP.
The FEMA expert explained that the Erie Canal has many spillways
located along it’s path that insure the embankments will never
have water flowing over the top of the dam, which could cause a
major breach issue. By design our Erie Canal keeps it’s
neighbors safe from flooding in most sections of the canal. The
exceptions are for those sections of the canal that use existing
rivers or lakes for navigation, often referred to as “canalized”
rivers… like the Mohawk River & Oneida Lake.
Bottom line… whether they clear these Embankments or leave them
unsafe and full of large vegetation there will never be a need
for neighbors of the Erie to get flood insurance PUSHED on them
from FEMA.
Of course the other issue being addressed by the NY Canal
Corporation dam safety program is not about safety, it is solely
about avoidance of possible litigation in the event a breach &
flood does occur. That is all about keeping NY State from paying
out billions of dollars in lawsuit claims should a flood ever
happen, something we all should be concerned about. That
litigation could end up bankrupting the state and also placing a
burden on Taxpayers to cover the losses for their fellow New
Yorker's affected by an Erie Canal Flood.
Hope this helps everyone understand the topic, this Forum Board
will most likely be left for reference, the Flood Insurance
discussion is over.
#Post#: 548--------------------------------------------------
Re: FEMA rules do not require Erie Canal Neighbors to purchase
mandatory Flood Insurance
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: May 3, 2019, 4:49 pm
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Very interesting and explained well. Thanks.
What did strike me was that nowhere in this conversation did it
mention a breach caused by such things as tree blow-downs,
piping, embankment slumps etc.
Surely the risk of flood is still extremely high with an
inability to inspect, and the huge risk of flood caused by
piping etc?
No amount of spillways etc. will make any difference because the
water will not 'overtop' the crest in these situations. So the
risks are still there.
#Post#: 549--------------------------------------------------
Re: FEMA rules do not require Erie Canal Neighbors to purchase
mandatory Flood Insurance
DIR By: Doug K
Date: May 4, 2019, 11:43 am
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FEMA rules are what was shared, New York State rules are what
really matter for Safety & Prevention of flooding. FEMA is about
a monetary protection for areas that are more prone to flooding,
and it's directed to insure homes with mortgages are covered in
those more prone areas.
If there was an Erie Canal flood event, caused by a blowdown,
breach or earthquake, most people affected would certainly not
have flood insurance, and therefor no insurance coverage for
their loss...that's pretty standard. If you think about it,
fighting Canal Corporation efforts to correct issues with unsafe
embankment dams on their OWN property, is just asking for
trouble. Anyone responsible for that stoppage could be liable
under the law, for restitution to flood victims...it's called
Constructive Notice.
Right now those rules are being "reexamined" as a direct result
of this Erie Canal work. Notice how the conversations are
increasing between NY Power Authority, NY Canal Corp, and NY
Dept of Conservation? It's not by accident, NYPA is saying "we
have unsafe property", NY Canal is working to fix it, uncovering
many dams in the process, and NYDEC is working along side to
insure compliance. It will not be long before they figure oput
these all need to be added to the NY State Dam Registry, which
will result in mandatory 10 year inspections, above and below
water, by the DEC.
NY Canal Corporation is now allowed to tell the truth, with NYPA
at the helm. They have come clean on their past lapse of
maintenance, and NYPA is insuring these dams do comply with
Federal standards. There's only one reason for that.. protection
of Erie Canal Neighbors living below these unsafe dams, and to
avoid any potential litigation in the event a flood event does
happen.
Constructive Notice... go look it up....
HTML https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/constructive_notice
Brighton, Pittsford, Perinton Town Officials... a Wayne Count
Court Judge... the STCC, all of them were told about the bad,
unsafe condition of the Erie Canal, just like the rest of the
counties that the Embankment Project touched. We all hope a
flood doesn't happen, but if one does in eastern Monroe County I
am sure fingers will be pointed where some never planned.
Constructive Notice... moves the responsibility where it
belongs.
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