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Erie Canal Neighbors Association
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DIR Return to: Perinton/Fairport Canal Community Discussion
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#Post#: 2436--------------------------------------------------
When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: May 25, 2023, 8:25 am
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When it has an easement in perpetuity!
Many visitors to The Oxbow must be wondering why a sign has
recently appeared at the Erie Crescent end of Oxbow Rd.
So we're going to try to explain what is going on, and why folks
should be concerned.
A section of this road is in the deed of the owners of # 14 Erie
Crescent. They own it, as you can see from the document they
kindly provided. Only a small part of Oxbow Rd is owned by #14.
as defined by the red lines.
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The easement states "Grantor covenants and agrees that Village,
its agents, servants, employees or contractors and members of
the public MAY AT ANY TIME enter upon the whole or any portion
of the said permanent easement for the purpose of ingress and
egress.
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But #14 owners didn't put this sign there, the owner of #1 Oxbow
Rd did.
HTML https://www.jimersonfirm.com/blog/2020/07/easements-rights-of-way-building-rights-property-value/
Disputes Regarding Easements
……while the property owner whose property is subject to the
easement retains the right to use the land in any manner not
inconsistent with the easement, the property owner cannot
unreasonably interfere with the rights of the easement holder.
For example, where an express easement provided for fifty feet
wide access, the property owner could not install a wall over a
portion of the easement, even though the easement holder still
had twenty feet for access. See Diefenderfer v. Forest Park
Springs, 599 So. 2d 1309, 1313 (Fla. 5th DCA 1992).
In this case, the property (#14 Erie Cr) owners are the ones who
have the easement on the property. It has nothing to do with the
#1 Oxbow Rd owners. They are simply ‘the general public’ who are
allowed ingress and egress through the property.
#1 Oxbow Rd owners have no rights to block ANY part of the
easement area, temporarily or otherwise. For the property owner
to allow this easement to be blocked or partially blocked would
be therefore an infringement, and could implicate them in the
offense.
#Post#: 2438--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: May 25, 2023, 12:44 pm
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Here you can see the Oxbow Road is clearly in the boundary of
#14 Erie Crescent, and NOT in the boundary of #1 Oxbow Rd.
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#Post#: 2439--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Doug K
Date: May 26, 2023, 8:40 am
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Just a thought here... having lived along the Erie Canal Trail
myself for quite a few years.
If the issue is the Oxbow Trail is being accessed after hours,
there is a Dusk to Dawn "curfew" for Empire Trail usage in New
York State, call the Canal Corporation and report the curfew
problem.
If the issue is that vehicle traffic is being allowed past the
new Oxbow Trail Bridge onto the Trail, contact the NYS Parks &
Trails and report the need to have a security post or gate added
to the bridge.
If the property owners of #1 Oxbow Rd do not like having the
public ramble by their home, disturbing their peaceful life, it
maybe time to start house hunting, public access is all but
guaranteed here.
The picture below says all that needs to be said on this matter,
regardless of what anyone may think or hope is the "truth" about
the Oxbow Rd and Trail.
[attachimg=1]
#Post#: 2441--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: May 27, 2023, 8:35 am
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#Post#: 2442--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Doug K
Date: May 29, 2023, 12:44 pm
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Did you notice the 1920s maps showing the Oxbow Reservoir?
RESERVOIR, yes that's the word... a body of water held back by a
dam.
And then there seem to be about 24-26 section segments along
that Reservoir that are stated at 60-65' wide? Each segment
appears to be created with steel pilings.
HTML https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.publications.usace.army.mil/portals/76/publications/engineermanuals/em_1110-2-2504.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi1_4nm8Jz_AhUwFFkFHYX-CPYQFnoECDQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0AwNzoZwCpyDyVumpIWBK6
The math says that the Oxbow Reservoir is held back by an
earthen embankment wall, about 1650' long, with sections of
steel sheet piling wall, driven in for support.
And the Oxbow Reservoir Dam extends into the valley below about
725 feet on the outboard slope.
Total height of the Oxbow Reservoir above the surrounding flood
zone below, that's 60 to 68 feet depending on where the
embankment dam is measured.
And some local Village & Town public servants don't believe
there is any dam there at all, no large Reservoir, Ciaran Hanna
is in denial himself.
How would they see it anyway?
It's covered with 100s of trees that are making it weaker each
and every day.
#Post#: 2443--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: May 30, 2023, 12:22 pm
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If there are areas between 31F and where the electricity lines
cross over near Old Post Rd. then maybe the steep drop off (a
virtual sheer drop) might account for the embankment being held
up by steel sheet pilings? It still is no excuse for trees
growing there surely?
#Post#: 2444--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Doug K
Date: May 31, 2023, 6:00 am
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The ECNA discussed sheet piling walls some time ago, after a
discussion with the NYS Canal Corporation. We learned that the
steel sheet used for these stability walls only cover the top
20' of any embankment section and do NOT prevent an earthen dam
breach. They are an addition to Erie Canal Embankments where the
"risk" of earthen dam failure was highest, and the damage from a
breach would be most felt.
Having sheet pilings called out, on Canal Corporation maps, is
really showing where the highest risk of a devastating flood
"might" happen...
The sheet piling will slow the collapse of a section that has
failed, hopefully giving the Canal Maintenance teams time enough
to drain off sections as needed and close the coffer gates on
either side of the embankment break. Still, the amount of water
that would escape in a dam failure would all depend on where
those flood gates are located, and how many miles between those
on either side of a dam breach.
Steel Sheet Pilings don't prevent embankment breaches...
Steel Sheet Pilings don't stop embankment leaks...
In fact, the BOTTOM of the sheet pilings used on the Oxbow Dam
are still 45' ABOVE the actual bottom of the 65' tall Oxbow
Reservoir Earthen Embankment
If the Oxbow Embankment failed the entire mess, including those
steel sheets, would simply slide down the outer slope as it
disappeared behind a wall of water.
#Post#: 2450--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: June 10, 2023, 7:03 am
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In summary; the general public have an absolute right to ingress
and egress through the property @ 14 Erie Crescent, to access
State Land known as The Oxbow Trail.
The General Public should continue to travel through and by
these properties to enforce their rights. The new owners should
have been aware of the situation here before they purchased.
It's spelled out in the 'easement' etc.
#Post#: 2451--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Doug K
Date: June 10, 2023, 8:29 am
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Hopefully very soon, those who feel they have a right to "block"
a Right of Way Access to State Land will "come to their senses"
and stop trying to block the public from using the Oxbow Park &
Trail.
Common Sense is something that is becoming harder & harder to
find these days, but surely it's alive & well in Fairport. And
if common sense is really lacking, then perhaps just being "a
good neighbor" might just work in this particular
situation...think about it.
No one likes dealing with someone who's being "difficult" as
they say... right?
#Post#: 2452--------------------------------------------------
Re: When is a private drive not private?
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: June 14, 2023, 6:07 am
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