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#Post#: 178--------------------------------------------------
Erie Canal Embankment Dam Question FINALLY put to REST
DIR By: Doug K
Date: December 7, 2018, 10:16 am
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About a year ago or more, the New York Canal Corporation told
the public that the Erie Canal Embankments had reached a point
where they had become UNSAFE and it was necessary to start a
much needed Embankment Remediation / Repair Project to restore
the Canal to it's 1918 state, like when it was new. The Canal
Corporation sited Engineering Inspection Reports recently
conducted, as well as the SCIENCE behind Embankment Dams
including the Rules & Regulations set by FEMA, NY DEC, and The
Army Corps of Engineers regarding proper Embankment Dam
Maintenance.
They NY Canal Corp & NY Power Authority were sure the public
would support them & want these dilapidated embankments fixed
and a restore the Erie Canal to a more safe state after using
the term Unsafe Embankment Dams. They were terribly mistaken!
A group of people started a fight against this safety project by
turning the topic away from Safety to Trees, and also denying
these canal banks were actually Embankment Dams. Since then, the
question of exactly "what" to call the outboard slope that runs
downward from the Erie Canal Trail has raged in the Rochester
area and divided neighbors, friends & family.
Finally we have the answer to the question of WHAT the slopes
are that help to contain & guide the Erie Canal along it's 339
mile route in NY
Below is a correspondence from a Hydrology Expert received a few
days ago that proves ONCE AND FOR ALL that the Erie Canal is
lined by Embankment Dams.
[attachimg=1]
So, there it is, proof positive that the NY Canal Corporation
was NOT "lying to the public" as some have stated, nor was it
trying to "clear cut" the Erie Canal Embankments to "raise
money", which is also what some folks have said. They are trying
to REPAIR these Embankment Dams and make them safer by REPLACING
the Woody Vegetation that is CAUSING the safety issue with the
recommended covering for safe Dams... GRASS.
The ECNA has extended a formal "thank you" to Dr. Rosgen &
Wildland Hydrology for their expert opinion on this matter and
finally clearing up the mis-information that was being spread.
[attachimg=2]
#Post#: 185--------------------------------------------------
Re: Erie Canal Embankment Dam Question FINALLY put to REST
DIR By: Michael Caswell
Date: December 9, 2018, 5:47 pm
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[size=12pt]My conversation with Dr Rosgen
Dr Rosgen
I note Harvey Gross and Elizabeth Agte's group (Stop The Clear
Cut) have contacted you as a possible advocate for their
mission.
This group of people have blocked the NYPA (New York Power
Authority) NYCC (new York Canal Corp[size=14pt]) with a court
injunction to stop the vegetation removal project in the three
towns of Brighton, Pittsford and Perinton NY.
They persuaded Professor Donald H Gray to sign a testimony
stating trees were good for the embankments of the canal,
offering stability etc. etc.
When I read his testimony, I felt there was something basically
wrong because it flew in the face of the ASDSO, USACE, FEMA and
NYDEC guidelines for embankment dams. So I wrote to Dr. Gray
and asked him if he could show me any of his papers where it
stated trees helps prevent erosion, and he sent me his article
on trees and levees.
So, I then asked him to explain to me the difference between an
earthen embankment dam and a levee, and here is his reply.
HTML https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/testimony-in-question-vegetation-on-dams/
Note in particular his statement ----
“I don’t know of any earth dams where woody vegetation was
purposely planted or allowed to grow on a face of the dam.“
When I pointed out. to Dr Gray that his affidavit was referring
to levees and he had not been told this was an earthen
embankment dam with a serious vegetation problem and had not
been inspected for over 20 years, he rushed to seek legal
advice. The STCC had conveniently omitted to tell him that this
was a dam holding up millions of gallons of water, directly over
a built up residential area with hundreds of properties and a
school in harm's way.
The NYPA's recent inspection by a dam engineer which rated it as
a class 3 Hazard dam, and noted that further inspection was
impossible because of the dense vegetation which they
recommended should be removed.
You can see the state of this embankment here
HTML https://youtu.be/JHdYVszQ5qU
It is also worth mentioning that the great majority of the
vegetation here is junk Cottonwood, Amur Honey suckle,
bittersweet vines, swallow-wort, and black locust, all invasive,
or regulated by NYDEC. The Cottonwoods are particularly
dangerous because they are weak limbed, prone to toppling and
compromising the embankment, a very dangerous situation on a 100
year old structure that has seen NO maintenance in seventy
years. The slopes are very steep, badly designed, there are no
toe drains and leak abound everywhere.
One leak was so bad, a huge swamp was at the base of the
embankment, right behind an apartment complex. It had a forest
of cat tails growing there that was over 50 feet across. Back in
the spring of this year the NYPA pounded 45' long sheets of
steel into the crest of the embankment for a 200 foot length to
stop the flow of water and shore up this mess.
see
HTML https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2018/04/14/340/
I hope I can persuade you not to support this group. They have
cost the taxpayers a great deal of money, and put thousands of
people's lives at risk. The removal of vegetation on the canal
is vital to the safety of the folks living below this nightmare.
Much work is scheduled, like new toe drains, root removal,
regrading steep slopes, filling in gouges and restoring
spillways and culvert etc. etc. The work is ongoing in all other
areas except where the STCC has persuaded town supervisors to
mount this injunction.
If you'd like to see this for yourself, I'd be glad to show you
around in person or on Facetime
References:
www.eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com
www.ecna.us
HTML https://ecna.createaforum.com/index.php
Thank you.
Michael Caswell
admin@ecna.us
Erie Canal Neighbors Association
Dr Rosgen's reply ----
Michael,
My research data and model represents lateral streambank erosion
rates observed along stream systems and canals associated with
(or without) riparian vegetation.
My data, however, does not reflect on a Dam embankment with a
differential head influencing pore water pressure processes.
Where cottonwood trees have been removed along embankments of
irrigation canals, the results of such have increased bank
erosion rates and required rock rip rap to offset the
accelerated erosion of the embankment material.
It sounds like there are two different issues here related to
vegetation influence. If you have invasive vegetation along
diversion canals or streambanks, spot spraying and planting of
willows or other native woody vegetation to replace the invasive
species is often recommended. Willows also can out-compete many
invasive plants without losing the bank stability associated
with the effective rooting character of woody vegetation.
Your dam face, however, is a different problem where head
pressure can cause native material fill breach.
My previous recommendations were based on canal and stream
channel processes only. If wind-related wave action causes
embankment erosion of the dam, surface protection of the dam
face (including the toe) is normally required involving rock or
material to dissipate flow energy. It is important to identify
erosional processes related to embankment failures, then design
solutions that offset the risk of failure mechanics that address
the cause of potential failure. Soil mechanics must be
investigated on earthen dams to help identify such failure
mechanics and erosional processes and associated risks.
My discussion was meant not to defend or support extreme views
(or take sides), but to extend facts and research results on the
role of vegetation related to streambank erosion related to
streams and canal embankments. I would not support the removal
of woody vegetation along stream channels and/or canals based
on my research data of such.
Dam embankments of native fill represent different processes and
as such, vegetation can represent a risk to stability due to
water piping and positive pore water pressure failures.
I hope this clarification will help in the proposed decisions to
be made.
Dave
From: wildland <wildland@wildlandhydrology.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:02 AM
To: Dave Rosgen <dave@wildlandhydrology.com>
Subject: FW: For the attention of Dr David Rosgen
From: Michael Caswell [mailto:mjcaswell@me.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 8:29 AM
To: wildland
Cc: Kucmerowski Douglas
Subject: For the attention of Dr David Rosgen
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