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DIR Return to: Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth
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#Post#: 45031--------------------------------------------------
I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: sesamecharlie Date: August 30, 2013, 3:51 pm
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It only took me 5 months...
As much as some parts were a chore to get through, I really
enjoyed it. And I loved the end with the Shire and Saruman, etc.
I much preferred his death in the books than in the films.
When I finished it last night, it felt pretty great. Such a good
feeling to finish something you've been working on for a while.
#Post#: 45039--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: Dr._Pants_The_Tech_Guy Date: August 30, 2013, 10:25 pm
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I for one am happy they left The Scouring of the Shire out of
the movies. I felt it was just too much and a second climax was
unnecessary. And I even read the book first.
#Post#: 45262--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: Fawkes Date: September 13, 2013, 11:04 pm
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[quote author=Dr. Pants link=topic=5488.msg45039#msg45039
date=1377919503]
I for one am happy they left The Scouring of the Shire out of
the movies. I felt it was just too much and a second climax was
unnecessary. And I even read the book first.
[/quote]
This. The Scouring of the Shire is probably one of the most
controversial sections of the trilogy, and I for one dislike it.
I preferred Saruman's death in the EE of ROTK. My one problem
with the trilogy (books) is the sheer amount of tangents that
Tolkien goes on that are irrelevant to any character development
or the overall narrative/plot. Some of the things should have
been placed in the appendices. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely
love the books, but I actually prefer the films to them.
#Post#: 45263--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: Aussie50 Date: September 13, 2013, 11:15 pm
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[quote author=Fawkes link=topic=5488.msg45262#msg45262
date=1379131457]
[quote author=Dr. Pants link=topic=5488.msg45039#msg45039
date=1377919503]
I for one am happy they left The Scouring of the Shire out of
the movies. I felt it was just too much and a second climax was
unnecessary. And I even read the book first.
[/quote]
This. The Scouring of the Shire is probably one of the most
controversial sections of the trilogy, and I for one dislike it.
I preferred Saruman's death in the EE of ROTK. My one problem
with the trilogy (books) is the sheer amount of tangents that
Tolkien goes on that are irrelevant to any character development
or the overall narrative/plot. Some of the things should have
been placed in the appendices. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely
love the books, but I actually prefer the films to them.
[/quote]
Agree with all of this. When I first watched ROTK I was a bit
disappointed they cut the Scouring of the Shire, but I
completely get the change now and am glad it wasn't included.
#Post#: 45271--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: MrLoveTear Date: September 14, 2013, 10:30 am
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I would argue that the Scourging of the Shire is one of the most
tonally and thematically important scenes in the book. It is
there as a representation that the damage of war continues; it
shows that no place is safe from devastation. And it shows how
much the four hobbits have grown on their journey (Frodo, who
back in the Shire advocated killing Gollum, has learned the
value and ramifications of mercy, and as such permits Saruman to
live). And it is emphatically essential: it nods towards
soldiers returning from their brutal war campaign, expecting
home and its comforts, only to be confronted with more death and
damage.
One problem with Jackson's films is they don't have this kind of
realisation of war. The ring is destroyed, Sauron's tyranny is
overthrown, and then everybody goes home happy. It's not that I
dislike Jackson's films, it's just that this strikes me as too
clean an ending, especially given the strong pessimism and
melancholy that defines Tolkien's mythology.
#Post#: 45272--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: Dr._Pants_The_Tech_Guy Date: September 14, 2013, 11:55 am
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I always felt that theme was sufficiently communicated by
Frodo's chronic pain and his and the Elves' departure from
Middle-Earth.
#Post#: 45273--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: The Dude Date: September 14, 2013, 1:16 pm
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I am glad that Scouring of Shire wasn't in the movie. It would
have seemed extremely out of place and would have taken another
20-30 mins. Also I preferred the Saruman's death in the film
than the one in the book.
As for the realisation of war, there is a small scene towards
the end when the Hobbits arrive in Shire and are having drinks
in the Green Dragon.
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-za-KhzS1g
I think this scene as well as Frodo's PTSD effectively
communicated the realisation of war in the film.
#Post#: 45274--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: MrLoveTear Date: September 14, 2013, 2:59 pm
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By the closing pages of Lord of the Rings you should feel
exhausted, and sad, and empty. Tolkien lived through the first
World War, a conflict that killed many of his closest friends,
he then came home to face the economic depression. He didn't
come home to pleasantry and nice countryside, nor did the
soldiers of WWII. Nor does any soldier, I'd wager. The cynicism
and sorrow in Tolkien's work is directly related to his themes.
His mythology does reflect that (the Silmarillion, or much of
it, was first conceived during his time in the trenches). Lord
of the Rings, thematically, is obsessed with death. Even the
elves are directly tied into that theme: they lament
immortality, and envy the other races for their mortality. Much
of the dialogue in the book is heavy with ideas of loss and
memory.
Galadriel shows Frodo a vision of the Scouring of the Shire,
suggesting this may happen should he fail the task. The point
was, of course, that Frodo did fail the task. He was seduced by
the ring, and it was only through the mercy that he and Bilbo,
and Sam, showed to Gollum that the quest actually succeeded.
Frodo is left deeply scarred, both mentally and emotionally, by
the sacrifice and his failure. That clip is nice, yes, but it
seems more wistful than deeply troubled to me. I think Jackson
set up the Shire wonderfully. It is a place of beauty and
innocence and tranquility. It's what motivated Frodo on the
quest. It's what he desires to protect most, and it's taken from
them in such a callous way. It's not even necessary: it's an
after thought, a bit of revenge for Saruman. “Small mischief” to
the rest of the world. And yet it is everything to the people
who tried to fence out the troubles of the world.
At the end of the day, it doesn't feel like the Hobbits' have
really lost anything. They set out to save the Shire, and they
do, and they've been through many struggles but that personal
violation isn't there. The gravitas is lost when they return to
those beautiful rolling hills and unassuming faces, rather than
scorched earth and palpable misery. Frodo's growth, from dealing
out death easily, to wearily letting Saruman go to end the
rampant death and myopic retribution, isn't there. I don't feel
Jackson got that across, because it's not really there to get
across. In the film it feels like, now that Sauron has fallen,
Middle Earth will be a peaceful and wonderful place to live.
Tolkien himself wrote that the peace after the Fall of Mordor
would last maybe a century, before the factions of men began to
turn on each other and enter a civil war.
I want to get across that I do like Jackson's interpretation of
Tolkien's story. I love his visualization of Middle Earth, I
love that scope of the film and the whole operatic tone of it. I
love the detail and grit to Middle Earth, I love the power and
majesty in the music. I admire the empathy Jackson directs with,
and the humanity that he manages to weave into such grand films.
I just feel he dropped the ball on this point, the point that
could have added real weight to the Hobbits' journey beyond the
fantasy. And I don't believe it would have effected the film
negatively in boxoffice: people were going to watch this, no
matter what.
#Post#: 45285--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: sesamecharlie Date: September 15, 2013, 11:59 am
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[quote]By the closing pages of Lord of the Rings you should feel
exhausted, and sad, and empty. Tolkien lived through the first
World War, a conflict that killed many of his closest friends,
he then came home to face the economic depression. He didn't
come home to pleasantry and nice countryside, nor did the
soldiers of WWII. Nor does any soldier, I'd wager. The cynicism
and sorrow in Tolkien's work is directly related to his
themes.[/quote]
This exactly. Soldiers come home from war only to face another
one there (it's like the Scouring is a symbol or something :P).
It's a huge theme in war literature --"Soldier's Home" by Ernest
Hemingway and Ceremony by Leslie Marmon Silko. That's what the
Scouring of the Shire is and it's missing from the films. We
don't see Frodo's pain and illness and struggle after he returns
to the Shire. This is also shown by him getting sick every
anniversary of Weathertop, which is also not in the films. Sure,
we see a little of Frodo looking gloomy in the Green Dragon and
Frodo tells us the Shire has not been saved for him, but I'm a
believer that showing is a great deal more effective and
masterful than telling. Those scenes in no way demonstrate the
depth of Frodo's suffering.
Now, I agree with most that it probably wouldn't have worked
with the movie's pacing and arch, but I just want to get across
how incredibly important the Scouring of the Shire is to the
books, to literature, and to Tolkien.
#Post#: 45286--------------------------------------------------
Re: I finally finished reading the trilogy!
By: DanishPrince Date: September 15, 2013, 12:04 pm
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Wasn't some of the Scouring filmed? They could have used it in
the extended cut.
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