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#Post#: 12805--------------------------------------------------
Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: Nicholas Washington Date: March 8, 2025, 10:30 am
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I've just been to the AGM at the Gaydon Motor Museum and it was
announced that Billet Flywheels are not permitted, but cast
aluminium flywheels are allowed.
There is no benefit of a Billet Flywheel over a cast flywheel,
but it seems that the decision has been made because of the cost
of billet flywheels.
I've already have a billet flywheel and was just about to fit it
before I got the news today, and will now have to buy different
flywheel.
I left the AGM completely dejected and considering whether I
should continue with my build.
What will be "not allowed" next on cost grounds? Will a budget
be set for steering wheels etc.?
#Post#: 12809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: Chris Date: March 10, 2025, 4:11 am
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Agree Nicholas. In reality a billet flywheel (and con rod for
that) doesn’t make your engine any more powerful just more
reliable. Why shouldn’t you spend money on reliability? It
should be your choice.
#Post#: 12810--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: Scotty Date: March 10, 2025, 5:29 am
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May I start by saying that I am in broad agreement with your
comments when it comes to personal preference within the build,
especially when there is no “performance advantage gain”. Surely
the desire to build the kart of your dreams must prevail.
This leads me on to MY dilemma, which is fast approaching and
could literally hit the “build buffers” in a dramatic way if I
don’t get it right. I refer of course to my up-and-coming build,
the Panhard Razar and its unique steering system.
My take on the discussions, centred on the committees’
objections on the grounds of cost, so where does this leave me
and my personal safety.
I have NO engineering knowledge or skills yet if I were to
follow the “cost restrictions”, plus rely on cheap untested and
inappropriate parts cobbled together to create this rather
complicated steering system, “no disrespect but I don’t think a
spinning table top server has been certified by the Department
of Transport as safe to be used for steering a motor vehicle,”
then what is the answer. Do tell me as I would like to drive
this kart safe in the knowledge that I will walk away from it in
one piece and at the moment a spinning table top doesn’t cut it.
In short, I may have to incur a few hundred pounds in order to
have this steering mechanism manufactured but I am reluctant to
commit such funds, which are for the benefit of my safety, if
the committee is going to tell me I can’t or should not have
spent that some of money, meaning the build is not viable.
Have I, and some others, got the wrong end of the stick here
when it comes to what one wants to build, within limits and is
the limit COST over SAFTEY and PREFERENCE?
#Post#: 12811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: StefanN Date: March 10, 2025, 5:56 am
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Please could I ask that we take a pause on this for a day or two
while conversations are had. There’s a fair bit of emotion and
misinformation and so I’m asking that we all allow a moment to
get things sorted.
I’ll post an update on here later in the week.
Thanks
Stefan
#Post#: 12814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: Paddy the pilot Date: March 10, 2025, 8:28 am
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While I can appreciate that you would like a pause, do you not
want any feedback?
"I don't have a dog in this fight" I do have an opinion.
If the objection to billet flywheels is one of cost and not
performance enhancement I was unaware that there was a maximum
amount allowed for a build.
Will we soon be required to submit a detailed list of every
component and it's cost?
I am reading from the back of the Cyclekart GB flyer "As a
driving machine, the Cyclekart formula loosely limits certain
aspects of the cars to maintain good sporting performance
without jeopardising the light-hearted nature of these machines
and the people who build them.
We might be veering away from the true light-hearted spirit of
cyclekarting.
#Post#: 12816--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: Nicholas Washington Date: March 10, 2025, 3:38 pm
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In light of the decision announced at the AGM I have ordered a
Honda Aluminium Flywheel at a cost of £67.70 including VAT and
postage.
I've also ordered a standard Loncin cylinder head at a cost of
£54.20, since mine had been ported and subsequently unacceptable
according to the power menu.
#Post#: 12817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: tim.wheater Date: March 10, 2025, 3:59 pm
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Scotty just use a standard kart type steering set up, the thing
is supposed to be a caricature of the original. Don't incur
extra unnecessary expense . Simplicity is more reliable
#Post#: 12818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: Scotty Date: March 10, 2025, 5:01 pm
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Hi Tim, I take on board everything you say which makes complete
sense .
I have been leaning towards this solution however this steering
is part and parcel of the car and I would really like to
incorporate it within the build.
In shot it’s like adding a 4th wheel to a Morgan build so as to
ensure stability and ease of construction.
At this moment it time I have yet to find a shop who can
engineer these parts and at what cost but I firmly believe the
choice on whether or not to have this steering system within the
build is mine irrespective of the cost.
#Post#: 12823--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: StefanN Date: March 12, 2025, 4:35 am
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Thanks to those who have engaged in conversations over the last
couple of days. They've been positive and constructive.
So to clarify:
There is no cost limit or fixed maximum that can be spent.
Everyone's access to resources, equipment, skills, time,
interests etc are different.
There is an ethos that cyclekarting is an affordable form of
sport/hobby and so we want to ensure it stays fun and enjoyable
for everyone.
There was a pre-notice that work was being done on regs around
engine mods in August 2024 and the Power Menu was announced Jan
2025.
The presentation at the AGM aimed to answer some questions
people had raised about how it works.
The Handbook is being updated to include a note about the Power
Menu.
The Power Menu is not perfect but it is a good piece of work to
implement the "10hp" rule in a way that does not constrain
tinkering too much - there are more permutations available on
the Power Menu than anyone could try in a lifetime.
There were some questions asked about the rules around
flywheels. The committee is looking into this and will consider
this for V2 of the Power Menu. There is no timeline for V2 of
the Power Menu - we need time to experience using the Power Menu
to see if anything needs tweaking or clarifying.
Thanks for all the positive comments people have made
acknowledging the work that members have put into developing a
pragmatic way to implement the 10hp rule.
#Post#: 12824--------------------------------------------------
Re: Billet Flywheel - Not Allowed
By: RhysN Date: March 12, 2025, 7:52 am
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Thanks for your clarification Stefan. When the menu was first
published I did ask a question of a committee member in regards
the billet flywheel which I have had for over 10 years, and
whether it could be "grandfathered". I was told at that time by
him that they were considered a cost item and that was the
reason for their non allowance. I did ask about the cost of
Juggernaut clutches in the same conversation , the response was
that transmission items were not discussed. Obviously there is a
little of a mismatch of information.
I must add again, that I am very supportive of the efforts to
gain a measure of control over the power outputs for many
reasons, and thanks to those who have taken on this unenviable
task.
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