DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
US Environmental History Class at CSW
HTML https://cswenvirohistclass.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Mod 4, 2019
*****************************************************
#Post#: 196--------------------------------------------------
#10: Whose West is It?
By: TeacherRachel Date: January 23, 2019, 8:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Whose West is It?
Please read Mark David Spence, from Dispossessing the
Wilderness: Indian Removal and the Making of the National Parks
(pp.264-272).
In your post, please write one thoughtful question about the
reading and answer the thoughtful question posed by the post
that precedes yours.
For the first post, here's the question that you must answer
(and don't forget to also ask your own question for the next
person): Based on the readings in this class, what was the "the
West" - a place, a goal, a dream, the future, a geography, a
myth... or none of these? Why?
#Post#: 197--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: Casey A Date: January 23, 2019, 3:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Based on this reading and the other readings in this class, I
would argue that the west takes on the role of a goal.
Especially in tonights reading, there is a lot of desire of
power and determination from powerful authorities such as the
government. In there reading for tonight, the main goal of the
government is to preserve Yellowstone in order to increase
tourism (or aka: kick out all the natives). This comes across
as interesting to me as the goal of there government is
described in away that makes it seem morale ethical, until you
look at the hidden meaning behind it where it becomes unethical,
almost like a cover up. In the last reading there was a lot of
expressing the west as a goal, such as the goal of the farmers
to wait out the drought and never give up hope and the hope of
the government to help save peoples lives from the drought (aka:
to use technology to push people off of their land forcefully).
I am starting to see a pattern here of making the west into an
unethical and greedy goal, but to present it to the public as
ethical.
My question for the next person is:
How do the intentions of the government and their interactions
with natives and hunters connect to today’s political climate
and goals?
#Post#: 198--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: JTodd Date: January 23, 2019, 5:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
To answer the Discussion question:
How the West is viewed and defined relies entirely on who you
ask.
As far as US Environmental History is concerned, the West is a
geographic area in the Western US characterized by its lack of
rainfall, as much as that angers me as someone raised and shaped
by the West.
As far as I’m concerned, the West is my home. The west is where
I grew up, where I have lived my whole life until CSW. I feel
most at home in the mountains.
As for native peoples, each tribe would view the area
differently. What can be geographically defined as the West was
divided into many distinct tribes before European conquest.
For homesteaders and European settlers of the west, it was a
dream, and hope of a new start.
For readers in the Old World towards the beginning of conquest
and exploration, the West and the entire New World might have
sounded like a myth. Myths like El Dorado also play in.
The West cannot be defined by any one of these terms because no
two groups define it in the same way.
To answer Casey’s question:
[quote author=Casey A link=topic=11.msg197#msg197
date=1548280300]
How do the intentions of the government and their interactions
with natives and hunters connect to today’s political climate
and goals?
[/quote]
I would go so far as to argue that the government doesn’t
particularly care about native peoples in the West. In Wyoming,
the area known as the Wind River district is home to the Wind
River Native American reservation. That area is the poorest
place in the whole state. There is plenty of crime, and
education is very poor. This is because the native peoples have
been forsaken by the government that took everything from their
ancestors. I would say the greatest parallel of interactions
between native peoples in Europeans in the US is that Europeans
never cared what happens to native peoples.
I would like to ask a similar question as Casey: Can you name a
government program, a recent headline, a political activist, or
anything really concerned with the aid and giving back to Native
Americans in the US? What does your answer tell you about how
administrative views have changed or stayed the same over time?
#Post#: 199--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: Cale is not me. Date: January 23, 2019, 6:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My response to the discussion question is this: The West since
the concept of such a thing existed has been and still is a
myth. That's not to say the geography of the place isn't
important as it is how the myth was formed. Western exploration
is synonymies with freedom. Landscapes of the west are expansive
and offer a sense of wonder. The idea of the "wild west" is one
of complete freedom and minimal rules. All of these things are
connected to the American mythos. An aspect of the western myth
is nature and the national parks are attempting to capture that
aspect of the myth even if it is disingenuous and built on the
suffering of natives.
The west as a concept is super cool and interesting.
#Post#: 200--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: alaina.h Date: January 23, 2019, 7:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=JTodd link=topic=11.msg198#msg198 date=1548285314]
To answer the Discussion question:
How the West is viewed and defined relies entirely on who you
ask.
As far as US Environmental History is concerned, the West is a
geographic area in the Western US characterized by its lack of
rainfall, as much as that angers me as someone raised and shaped
by the West.
As far as I’m concerned, the West is my home. The west is where
I grew up, where I have lived my whole life until CSW. I feel
most at home in the mountains.
As for native peoples, each tribe would view the area
differently. What can be geographically defined as the West was
divided into many distinct tribes before European conquest.
For homesteaders and European settlers of the west, it was a
dream, and hope of a new start.
For readers in the Old World towards the beginning of conquest
and exploration, the West and the entire New World might have
sounded like a myth. Myths like El Dorado also play in.
The West cannot be defined by any one of these terms because no
two groups define it in the same way.
To answer Casey’s question:
[quote author=Casey A link=topic=11.msg197#msg197
date=1548280300]
How do the intentions of the government and their interactions
with natives and hunters connect to today’s political climate
and goals?
[/quote]
I would go so far as to argue that the government doesn’t
particularly care about native peoples in the West. In Wyoming,
the area known as the Wind River district is home to the Wind
River Native American reservation. That area is the poorest
place in the whole state. There is plenty of crime, and
education is very poor. This is because the native peoples have
been forsaken by the government that took everything from their
ancestors. I would say the greatest parallel of interactions
between native peoples in Europeans in the US is that Europeans
never cared what happens to native peoples.
I would like to ask a similar question as Casey: Can you name a
government program, a recent headline, a political activist, or
anything really concerned with the aid and giving back to Native
Americans in the US? What does your answer tell you about how
administrative views have changed or stayed the same over time?
[/quote]
If I am being completely honest, in general, I don’t know any
particular program, group, or person that would invested in
Native Americans. There may possibly be some, but not that come
to my mind. This tells me that the administration and just
people in general aren’t doing as much as they could and should
for people who need support, like these Native peoples. I would
agree with Casey on how preserving Yellowstone could come off as
if it was intentional to displace Native peoples.
What conflicts arose after the creation of the Yellowstone
preservation? What have Native peoples done to resist the
government and gain their land?
#Post#: 201--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: Shi Shi Date: January 23, 2019, 7:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=JTodd link=topic=11.msg198#msg198 date=1548285314]
I would like to ask a similar question as Casey: Can you name a
government program, a recent headline, a political activist, or
anything really concerned with the aid and giving back to Native
Americans in the US? What does your answer tell you about how
administrative views have changed or stayed the same over time?
[/quote]
In response to Jake's questions, I first connect to the recent
viral video that depicts a high school student wearing a MAGA
hat interacting with a Native American elder. There are many
pieces to this issue but I want to stray away from summary. It
was released a couple days ago, and there currently is an
enormous amount of controversy surrounding the topic. I am
struggling still with interpreting the entire situation for
there are many perspectives to acknowledge. However, I feel that
a majority interpret tones of hate and racism directed at the
Native American elder. It currently is an extremely tricky time
in the United States; the strong divide in politics is affecting
our country's administration. This particular issue does not
support the idea of "aiding and giving back to Native
Americans", or at least that's what I believe.
I'm sure many others of you have seen this issue somewhere
online, so I'm very curious as to what your opinions are on this
topic. I don't think I really answered the second part of Jake's
question, partly because I'm still trying to understand the
entire issue more thoroughly, but I would like my question to be
an extension of it. What does this particular issue say about
the United State's current relationship with the Native American
population?
#Post#: 202--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: juliab Date: January 23, 2019, 7:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Alaina's question : What conflicts arose after the creation of
the Yellowstone preservation? What have Native peoples done to
resist the government and gain their land?
After Yellowstone was dedicated as a national park the Indians
were mostly removed from the premises and their native land.
Though they tried (and sometimes succeeded) to return, laws were
created banning hunting, and the area was militarized and force
was used to keep the Native Americans off of the land. Cases
like Ward v. Race Horse went to court, which became “the legal
basis for restricting all native hunting in the State of
Wyoming” (271). The article says that Yellowstone remains
contested, and the natives have continuously fought to reclaim
their land, yet have not been completely successful. There were
also many conflicts between the Army and different tribes around
the area. I know that I am definitely missing some information,
but this is what I could find.
Question: What does it mean that Native Americans were not seen
as a part of the “environment” they inhabited? Do you believe
that they should be included in this or not, and why?
#Post#: 203--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: juliab Date: January 23, 2019, 7:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Also, I am interested to hear what people make of the
misrepresentation of the relationship between the Native
Americans and the land encompassed by Yellowstone? (page 267). I
saw it as a ploy to make them seem weak (to keep this post short
& simple I'm not going in depth), but I am curious what other
people thought, if anyone else thought about it.
#Post#: 204--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: Kasey Date: January 23, 2019, 8:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Shi Shi link=topic=11.msg201#msg201
date=1548293302]
[quote author=JTodd link=topic=11.msg198#msg198 date=1548285314]
I would like to ask a similar question as Casey: Can you name a
government program, a recent headline, a political activist, or
anything really concerned with the aid and giving back to Native
Americans in the US? What does your answer tell you about how
administrative views have changed or stayed the same over time?
[/quote]
In response to Jake's questions, I first connect to the recent
viral video that depicts a high school student wearing a MAGA
hat interacting with a Native American elder. There are many
pieces to this issue but I want to stray away from summary. It
was released a couple days ago, and there currently is an
enormous amount of controversy surrounding the topic. I am
struggling still with interpreting the entire situation for
there are many perspectives to acknowledge. However, I feel that
a majority interpret tones of hate and racism directed at the
Native American elder. It currently is an extremely tricky time
in the United States; the strong divide in politics is affecting
our country's administration. This particular issue does not
support the idea of "aiding and giving back to Native
Americans", or at least that's what I believe.
I'm sure many others of you have seen this issue somewhere
online, so I'm very curious as to what your opinions are on this
topic. I don't think I really answered the second part of Jake's
question, partly because I'm still trying to understand the
entire issue more thoroughly, but I would like my question to be
an extension of it. What does this particular issue say about
the United State's current relationship with the Native American
population?
[/quote]
Going off of Shi Shi’s question which relates to others before,
I think the issue with the U.S. and Native Americans obviously
starts off with taking over and control of land. Europeans first
came and took land from Native Americans. Then, they see
themselves thriving while the Native Americans are being killed
off by diseases that came from Europe. So now in this reading,
people of the U.S. have this interpretation that they are more
“civilized” and are superior. Because they are surrounded by
civilizations, they recognize that they need to maintain and
protect a piece of land which is Yellowstone. In doing so, this
prevents Native Americans from being able to move and hunt as
they please because the people of the U.S. want to preserve the
land. By angering the Native Americans, the people of the U.S.
think that Native Americans do not appreciate land that is so
unusual and beautiful, which creates a bias towards Native
Americans. I think the lack of empathy and inability to
understand what the Native Americans were experiencing caused
the people of the U.S. to create unreasonable interpretations of
who these people were that are continuously passed down through
generations. Each generations is taught to recognize the
differences and the split boundaries between the two, so certain
stigmas arise. I think that the United States sometimes fails to
notice or understand the Native Americans’ side and that is
partly why there is a space between us or certain judgements
that resurface.
My question is how do you think keeping Native Americans out of
Yellowstone affected the land and the judgements of U.S. people?
What was the impact on the land and the people for keeping
Native Americans out of Yellowstone?
#Post#: 205--------------------------------------------------
Re: #10: Whose West is It?
By: mayafb Date: January 23, 2019, 8:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Shi Shi link=topic=11.msg201#msg201
date=1548293302]
[quote author=JTodd link=topic=11.msg198#msg198 date=1548285314]
I would like to ask a similar question as Casey: Can you name a
government program, a recent headline, a political activist, or
anything really concerned with the aid and giving back to Native
Americans in the US? What does your answer tell you about how
administrative views have changed or stayed the same over time?
[/quote]
In response to Jake's questions, I first connect to the recent
viral video that depicts a high school student wearing a MAGA
hat interacting with a Native American elder. There are many
pieces to this issue but I want to stray away from summary. It
was released a couple days ago, and there currently is an
enormous amount of controversy surrounding the topic. I am
struggling still with interpreting the entire situation for
there are many perspectives to acknowledge. However, I feel that
a majority interpret tones of hate and racism directed at the
Native American elder. It currently is an extremely tricky time
in the United States; the strong divide in politics is affecting
our country's administration. This particular issue does not
support the idea of "aiding and giving back to Native
Americans", or at least that's what I believe.
I'm sure many others of you have seen this issue somewhere
online, so I'm very curious as to what your opinions are on this
topic. I don't think I really answered the second part of Jake's
question, partly because I'm still trying to understand the
entire issue more thoroughly, but I would like my question to be
an extension of it. What does this particular issue say about
the United State's current relationship with the Native American
population?
[/quote]
From my understanding, the conflict occurred because there were
two movements at the Lincoln Memorial at the same time. The teen
was with a group of classmates from a school in the area.
Personally, although the kid had a legal right to be there, I am
against his approach to the situation. The way he was standing,
chin slightly turned upward, staring down a Native American
Veteran just showed all different kinds of disrespect. Despite
my own personal issues around this video, I think it has added
publicity toward many Native American movements. Connecting it
back to the reading, it seems that (at least in the examples
provided and my own background knowledge) that typically the
white Americans who are in power disobey laws and feel no
consequence. Similar to Yellowstone, the Black Hills region was
taken from the native peoples because of the resources that were
around it despite treaties that were already in place. Without
any legal consideration, the treaty was essentially considered
void after being honored for many years. There are so many more
complexities in this particular land dispute (and many many
others) but I think that this video of this young white teen and
a Native American elder will raise questions to people. How is
this different from other protest standoffs? I know that when
going to marches that align with my political beliefs it is
common to get hassled or be confronted with a different idea
from mine. This is such as life. So like Shi Shi, I am
questioning why this video went viral and why now. There are
many other large movements that Native Peoples are a part of
that are receiving a sliver of the publicity.
There also seems to be a direct connection to the idea of Eden
in the west and Eden in the east. In class (maybe last week), we
discussed how land was seized from Native Americans without
guilt because they were mismanaging it and could not properly
take care of the land. This seems quite similar in the west.
Many people thought that Yellowstone itself was an area avoided
by Native Americans (and I am honestly still confused on how
this idea manifested), and this help perpetuated the idea that
they could not care for the land. Then later the notion that
Native Americans "based their entire existence on the
destruction of wilderness" drove the whole system to believe
that the eradication of Native Americans is the best and only
course of action.
My question is this:
How does the idealization of land affect the use? In New England
it was commodified, so why, in the west was it preserved at the
expense of others?
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page