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#Post#: 156627--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: July 22, 2026, 3:33 am
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Oooops. Time for Kim Il Dok to move this to 'Everything Not
Rugby Related' mebbes? Sozzzz
#Post#: 156628--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: FatQuin
Date: July 22, 2026, 3:34 am
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Kingston out I say.
#Post#: 156630--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: Yareet
Date: July 22, 2026, 3:43 am
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--- Quote from: FatQuin link ---
>
> All this because Borthwick keeps playing Smith at fullback?
>
--- End Quote ---
Come for the Marcus fanboying, stay for the macroeconomic and
international political discourse
#Post#: 156631--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 22, 2026, 4:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> OK, I’ll bite. Which parts of the welfare bill are farcical?
>
> Here’s a breakdown of spending for last year. Which bit would
you cut?
>
> - Pensioner Benefits (£177.7 billion): Makes up the largest
share (around 55% of the total budget). This is primarily driven
by the State Pension, which accounts for £146.1 billion.
>
> - Disability and Ill-Health Support (£77.1 billion): Includes
benefits such as Personal Independence Payment (PIP), Disability
Living Allowance (DLA), and incapacity-related Universal Credit
payments.
>
> - Working Age and Children Welfare (£145.0 billion):
Encompasses Universal Credit, Child Benefit, and other
family-related support.
>
> - Housing Support (£37.3 billion): Includes housing benefits
and local housing allowances
>
> The State Pension is paid based on National Insurance
contributrions (and credits for those who aren’t working but are
caring for others or raising children).
>
> Pension Credit is means tested.
>
> PIP and DLA are subject to disability assessments (where the
goalposts keep being moved, leaving some disabled people without
access to benefits for months while they are reassessed) and are
geared towards enabling disabled people to live independently
and work, as are disability-related Universal Credit payments.
>
> Universal Credit essentially tops up income to a minimum level
for those whose wages are too low to live on. Child Benefit is
now cut off for high earners.
>
> Housing Benefits mostly support people whose housing costs are
disproportionate to their earnings, and often prevent families
becoming homeless when the main breadwinner loses a job and
can’t find another on equivalent pay.
>
> Which of these would you cut?
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Interesting, the subtle inclusion of the word "includes". I've
seen that tactic before. It's used in the following manner: "You
want to stop illegal immigration, including women and children".
It's a way of tainting everything under the label as "good",
without acknowledging that something else under the same label
might not be.
As Deadly says, there's a whole load of fraud carried out on the
welfare system. It's impossible to quantify how much, but it's
ludicrous to suggest it doesn't happen. Most people will have an
anecdote - I have a few. Previously I've worked in debt
recovery, and it's a real eye opener. People not paying debts as
they have no money, no job etc; then you turn up at their house
with two new-ish cars, couple of large, expensive dogs, to be
told the person is at work. Funny that.
I'd also question the disability and ill-health support too. It
never ceases to amaze me how the past decade or so has seen such
a boom in "mental health" that somehow prevents people from
working. I know of a business who had to pay a young lad who was
on full-time sick pay because of anxiety. He was a cleaner. When
questioned how he could be off work but out partying every
night, it seems that was part of his getting better.
And, yes, I'll mention the costs of illegal immigration.
Billions every year to pay for people who break into the country
and are better looked after than natives. Apart from the direct
costs, there's the knock on costs, to individuals, businesses,
and society as a whole.
But if you think the welfare system is just fine, I'm sure
you've been offered many bridges for purchase.
#Post#: 156642--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: July 22, 2026, 7:17 am
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So, summing up, the political issues in Argentina are all
Marcus' fault and can't be fixed without fecklessness busters,
and a left wing kicking approach?
I did all of that without AI as well!!!
#Post#: 156643--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: FromSurrey
Date: July 22, 2026, 7:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=poorfour link=topic=8289.msg156616#msg156616
date=1784672421]
OK, I’ll bite. Which parts of the welfare bill are farcical?
Here’s a breakdown of spending for last year. Which bit would
you cut?
- Pensioner Benefits (£177.7 billion): Makes up the largest
share (around 55% of the total budget). This is primarily driven
by the State Pension, which accounts for £146.1 billion.
- Disability and Ill-Health Support (£77.1 billion): Includes
benefits such as Personal Independence Payment (PIP), Disability
Living Allowance (DLA), and incapacity-related Universal Credit
payments.
- Working Age and Children Welfare (£145.0 billion): Encompasses
Universal Credit, Child Benefit, and other family-related
support.
- Housing Support (£37.3 billion): Includes housing benefits and
local housing allowances
The State Pension is paid based on National Insurance
contributrions (and credits for those who aren’t working but are
caring for others or raising children).
Pension Credit is means tested.
PIP and DLA are subject to disability assessments (where the
goalposts keep being moved, leaving some disabled people without
access to benefits for months while they are reassessed) and are
geared towards enabling disabled people to live independently
and work, as are disability-related Universal Credit payments.
Universal Credit essentially tops up income to a minimum level
for those whose wages are too low to live on. Child Benefit is
now cut off for high earners.
Housing Benefits mostly support people whose housing costs are
disproportionate to their earnings, and often prevent families
becoming homeless when the main breadwinner loses a job and
can’t find another on equivalent pay.
Which of these would you cut?
OK I will bite at the wokery
So you think the huge increase in benefits for people who cannot
work because they have "anxiety" is ok???
My neighbours daughter who is on benefits for anxiety but who is
no so anxious she cannot go clubbing with friends every weekend,
on holiday to South Africa for 6 weeks paid for by her parents,
go away for weekends with bf, shopping for clothes.
The 2 mid 20 year kids I have had working for me who could not
come in when we were under pressure because it made them anxious
_ (they do not work for me now)
My great grandfathers were on destroyers and a bomber pilot
during the whole of ww2. That is what I call stress. They just
got on with it.
When I was at uni I genuinely had a guy living next to us with 2
wives 3 kids who did not do a days work in the 2 years I lived
there when I spoke to him about what he did he said cheerfully
he had no need to work ad he had all the benefits he needed - I
am sure you will say that it is made up but it is TRUE
I do not think anyone who lands here without the correct visa
should be given a penny of my money that I pay in tax
I think increasing child benefit for people who have more than
two kids is insane
We have 2 kids - we do not expect the taxpayer to pay for them
Anyone who comes to this country should have to pay a fee of 5K
as insurance to the govt to cover them for any medical expenses
as they have never paid tax here previously
Anyone who comes illegally should not be entitled to any medical
care unless paid for in advance - and no I do not care if they
get ill - it is not my responsibility to pay for these people
#Post#: 156645--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: oakhaven
Date: July 22, 2026, 8:41 am
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Can an admin lock this thread now, or move it elsewhere?
#Post#: 156646--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: FrostAndFire
Date: July 22, 2026, 9:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The amount of fraud in the welfare system is significantly less
than tax fraud by higher earners and companies.
There is zero way of eliminating all fraud. It just can't be
done. However, it does provide a nice whipping boy for people
who just hate that the poor aren't poorer. Adding more and more
expensive checks to get less and less back from benefit fraud
has diminishing returns. Yes, it sucks when a few people cheat
the system and cheat the rest of us. But it's inevitable,
because a certain proportion of people will always be crap.
#Post#: 156647--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: Yareet
Date: July 22, 2026, 9:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> a certain proportion of people will always be crap.
>
--- End Quote ---
Are we back to the behaviour of Argentinian sports players now?
#Post#: 156649--------------------------------------------------
Re: England 23 for Argentina
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 22, 2026, 11:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> As Deadly says, there's a whole load of fraud carried out on
the welfare system. It's impossible to quantify how much, but
it's ludicrous to suggest it doesn't happen. Most people will
have an anecdote - I have a few. Previously I've worked in debt
recovery, and it's a real eye opener. People not paying debts as
they have no money, no job etc; then you turn up at their house
with two new-ish cars, couple of large, expensive dogs, to be
told the person is at work. Funny that.
>
> I'd also question the disability and ill-health support too.
It never ceases to amaze me how the past decade or so has seen
such a boom in "mental health" that somehow prevents people from
working. I know of a business who had to pay a young lad who was
on full-time sick pay because of anxiety. He was a cleaner. When
questioned how he could be off work but out partying every
night, it seems that was part of his getting better.
>
> And, yes, I'll mention the costs of illegal immigration.
Billions every year to pay for people who break into the country
and are better looked after than natives. Apart from the direct
costs, there's the knock on costs, to individuals, businesses,
and society as a whole.
>
> But if you think the welfare system is just fine, I'm sure
you've been offered many bridges for purchase.
>
--- End Quote ---
A lot of anecdotes there, but anecdotes are not data. While I
suspect there is some undetected benefit fraud, enough is spent
on looking for it that at the macro level the Government
statistics are reasonably accurate:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2026-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2026-estimates#universal-credit-overpayments-and-underpayments
The overall fraud rate is around 3.6%, in which Disability
Living Allowance is the lowest; people claiming it are already
heavily policed.
As for illegal immigrants, the numbers don't bear out your
claims.
Asylum seekers (who in any case are irregular migrants, not
illegal) get basic accommodation and enough money for basic food
and travel - given they have no right to work - and if their
claims are accepted then they don't get the right to claim
benefits for several years (from memory, 5). The vast majority
of actual illegal immigrants are people who arrived legally but
overstayed the terms of their visas or worked in ways their
visas. They aren't generally claiming benefits either, because
that would highlight the fact that they're overstayed their
visas.
Overall, the Oxford Migration Observatory found that immigrants
in general claim benefits at a lower rate than non-immigrants.
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