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#Post#: 154682--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 26, 2026, 4:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I think now there are only ten teams that players can be
chosen from that we should pick players from Europe. If it is to
be restricted then the RFU should contribute to the wage bills
of the clubs so they can afford to keep them in England. 50ish
International players spread over just 10 Prem Clubs is clearly
not affordable. Experience in France must improve the quality
and knowledge that the players pick up in a different
environment.
>
--- End Quote ---
They do.
The RFU has paid the clubs for over a decade now, including the
period when there are 13 of them; the original proposal was to
pay in proportion to number of England players from each team,
but the teams chose to split it equally.
The RFU’s 25 central contracts also help with the wage bill.
Because players in France aren’t eligible for them, it reduces
what the English clubs have to pay to match what is on offer in
France.
And “50ish” International players - a whopping 5 per team -
clearly is affordable, because only a couple of players
otherwise eligible for selection have gone to France.
#Post#: 154685--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: Yareet
Date: May 27, 2026, 12:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> Perhaps a slight relaxing would be to allow almost two
overseas selection per squad. In the same breath, per squad two
players max who qualifies through the residency rule.
>
> To be honest I don’t think this will ever be solved. I do
think it’s a shame though as I think a back row of Tom Willis,
Jack Willis and someone like Chessum or Pepper would be a great
balance
>
--- End Quote ---
Genuine question because I cba looking it up. Before BJVR, who
was the last player to qualify for England on residency? It
doesn’t strike me as a frequent enough issue to need to make a
ruling.
Similarly, we seem to get one player every 2-3 years who has
gone to France and we have to still pick.
Before Willis it was Mercer. He came back and didn’t do a lot.
Before that, Armitage? Abendanon when he was EPCR player of the
year?
#Post#: 154687--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: May 27, 2026, 1:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There's also the fact that a player in France would not
necessarily be available to the England Squad for all the
training camps. The RFU and PRL have an agreement that allows
England access to players outside the normal International
release windows, as well as enforcing things like rest weeks to
avoid burn-out. A French club would not have to abide by any of
that.
#Post#: 154688--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 27, 2026, 1:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Another issue is availability. If a player is being paid by a
French club, would they necessarily be obligated to release him
for matches, training etc?
In one of my early local club days in the first season, I
attended loads of pre-season. Then on the first match of the
season, the "first team" turned up. Only a handful had been to
training. They were a shambles, most had hardly trained (too
busy, not available etc), didn't know the routines and moves,
and the rest of the players felt rightly peeved because they'd
put the work in only to be overlooked for "better" players.
Willis might be good, but is he that good that the team can
mould itself around him? Is he so much better than the next
option?
#Post#: 154689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 27, 2026, 1:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> There's also the fact that a player in France would not
necessarily be available to the England Squad for all the
training camps. The RFU and PRL have an agreement that allows
England access to players outside the normal International
release windows, as well as enforcing things like rest weeks to
avoid burn-out. A French club would not have to abide by any of
that.
>
--- End Quote ---
There's an echo in here! :)
#Post#: 154690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: TankQuin
Date: May 27, 2026, 2:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Genuine question because I cba looking it up. Before BJVR, who
was the last player to qualify for England on residency? It
doesn’t strike me as a frequent enough issue to need to make a
ruling.
>
> Similarly, we seem to get one player every 2-3 years who has
gone to France and we have to still pick.
>
> Before Willis it was Mercer. He came back and didn’t do a lot.
Before that, Armitage? Abendanon when he was EPCR player of the
year?
>
--- End Quote ---
On the first point, it depends on if you include childhood
qualification or only adult. For the latter, in the last 10
years the only ones I could find are Nathan Hughes and Denny
Solomena.
For childhood qualification you have Marcus, Manu, the Vunipolas
and Cokanasiga.
#Post#: 154691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: May 27, 2026, 2:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Genuine question because I cba looking it up. Before BJVR, who
was the last player to qualify for England on residency? It
doesn’t strike me as a frequent enough issue to need to make a
ruling.
>
> Similarly, we seem to get one player every 2-3 years who has
gone to France and we have to still pick.
>
> Before Willis it was Mercer. He came back and didn’t do a lot.
Before that, Armitage? Abendanon when he was EPCR player of the
year?
>
--- End Quote ---
Tbh it is few and far between, I think we certainly had more of
it 15 or so years ago (or at least it seemed) with players not
being born here playing for England qualifying one way or the
other.
I think if it was a position we were maybe struggling in people
would be less bothered. Centre we already have a few options and
some great prospects. If this was hooker or tighthead (maybe
even fullback), I reckon the "outrage" so to speak would be a
bit more mute.
#Post#: 154693--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: May 27, 2026, 3:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Another issue is availability. If a player is being paid by a
French club, would they necessarily be obligated to release him
for matches, training etc?
> In one of my early local club days in the first season, I
attended loads of pre-season. Then on the first match of the
season, the "first team" turned up. Only a handful had been to
training. They were a shambles, most had hardly trained (too
busy, not available etc), didn't know the routines and moves,
and the rest of the players felt rightly peeved because they'd
put the work in only to be overlooked for "better" players.
>
> Willis might be good, but is he that good that the team can
mould itself around him? Is he so much better than the next
option?
>
--- End Quote ---
Poor old Stinky. That sense of entitlement getting you down
again?
#Post#: 154694--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: May 27, 2026, 3:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with MQ here. If this had been Esterhuizen coming into
the centres, it would be framed as a coop, because of the player
he is and he is still better than any 12 in our system.
I also agree that his legitimacy is the secondary issue. Is BJVR
better than his EQ peers in the Prem? I don't think so but I'd
frame my argument around that but DC made a good point on RUW
last week, English born centres grow up dreaming of playing for
England but BJVR grew up dreaming of playing for the Boks, this
is just a job for him. That could work out better as he won't be
tainted by the emotion of it, that all but the best sports
people have a way of filtering out.
See what happens I suppose, if he doesn't improve us, he'll be
out of there quicker than he came in.
#Post#: 154696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Want Jack Willis to play for England? Answer these questions
first
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 27, 2026, 4:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TankQuin link ---
>
> On the first point, it depends on if you include childhood
qualification or only adult. For the latter, in the last 10
years the only ones I could find are Nathan Hughes and Denny
Solomena.
>
> For childhood qualification you have Marcus, Manu, the
Vunipolas and Cokanasiga.
>
--- End Quote ---
Marcus has an English parent, although I don't know where his
father was born so maybe he needed the residency qualification.
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