DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 153427--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: April 26, 2026, 4:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure fighting is the right descriptor.
#Post#: 153430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Camquin
Date: April 26, 2026, 5:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that it seems to cost between £20 and £30 million
to run a Prem side and the RFU, TV, Sponsorship and gate raises
about £15 to £20m million, so every side is losing about £5 to
£10 million a year.
That is after the RFU have cut shifted their spending from
supporting the wider sport to just propping up the cartel.
That assumes that you already own a stadium and training
facility.
Even sharing a stadium, as Bristol does, does not seem to reduce
the losses. I suspect the cost of opening a stadium like Ashton
Gate and only half filling it is more than opening the Stoop.
Which means it is not possible for a members club to make the
transition, you need a sugar daddy - or as the RFU calls them an
investor - with about £150m they can put into Rugby without
noticing.
And we have seen Wasps, Irish and Worcester collapse into
bankruptcy. Newcastle limped on, running on fumes until they
found a buyer. Tony Rowe has run out of money and is selling.
Despite talk of up to 10 new franchises,
expansion is not expected until 2029 at the earliest.
And I am not convinced there is a long queue of contenders for
those slots.
#Post#: 153433--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: April 26, 2026, 6:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Camquin ---
> That is after the RFU have cut shifted their spending from
supporting the wider sport to just propping up the cartel.
--- End Quote ---
It's not really "the wider support" though, is it?
The RFU stopped shelling out £600k a year to each Championship
club because they just spaffed it up the wall on players'
salaries and did nothing about their infrastructure.
#Post#: 153439--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: April 26, 2026, 7:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Bristol are averaging 18,000 bums on seats. If they are still in
financial straits then we are all going forth in short jerky
movements.
#Post#: 153450--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: April 26, 2026, 8:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Camquin link ---
>
> The problem is that it seems to cost between £20 and £30
million to run a Prem side and the RFU, TV, Sponsorship and gate
raises about £15 to £20m million, so every side is losing about
£5 to £10 million a year.
>
> That is after the RFU have cut shifted their spending from
supporting the wider sport to just propping up the cartel.
>
> That assumes that you already own a stadium and training
facility.
>
> Even sharing a stadium, as Bristol does, does not seem to
reduce the losses. I suspect the cost of opening a stadium like
Ashton Gate and only half filling it is more than opening the
Stoop.
>
> Which means it is not possible for a members club to make the
transition, you need a sugar daddy - or as the RFU calls them an
investor - with about £150m they can put into Rugby without
noticing.
>
> And we have seen Wasps, Irish and Worcester collapse into
bankruptcy. Newcastle limped on, running on fumes until they
found a buyer. Tony Rowe has run out of money and is selling.
>
> Despite talk of up to 10 new franchises,
> expansion is not expected until 2029 at the earliest.
>
> And I am not convinced there is a long queue of contenders for
those slots.
>
--- End Quote ---
The RFU did not move funding to prop up a cartel, they cut
funding to champ clubs because it provided no clear benefit.
The clubs that went bankrupt each had a reason why it happened,
Rowe is 77 and looking to ensure that Exeter has a future, and
also that his family has something from his success.
Yes there are three years before any club can join the prem, but
there was promotion this year, but another Ealing cakewalk, and
if anyone does want to go into the prem seems like a sensible
timeframe to prepare.
At the moment it is cheaper to buy a club, NRB or Exeter style,
than develop a club, when available clubs dry up, we will see if
people want to start new clubs or develop existing champ sides.
The let’s just promote a couple of clubs to the prem approach
would just be like throwing Christian’s to the lions.
And if people want to make football comparisons, the Champ is
closer to non league football than the EFL, I live right on top
of Trailfinders and have watched a few matches, and too be
honest prefer to watch the women’s team, which is high quality.
I have spoken to a lot of their supporters and some are
realistic and some are not about what would happen to them in
the Prem, the mens team does not have the development pathway
that the PWR team does, and most of them say they would need a
90% new squad to play in the prem.
Any team that comes into the prem needs to be vaguely
competitive and that takes time and money, there is no short
cut, and that needs to come from an investor not the RFU.
#Post#: 153514--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Camquin
Date: April 27, 2026, 4:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It will not come from an investor - investors want a return -
not to lose money each year.
Unless you have some magic beans the losses are only going to
grow as you add more teams.
Which means it can only come from a sugar daddy - or a
consortium of sugar daddies.
The other question is where are they going to get players.
Rugbycat claims that even Ealing's full-time squad would
struggle in the Prem. So a new franchise is not going to simply
hire Champ players.
However, most Prem players do spend time in the National leagues
and Champ to improve their game.
BUCS is lower standard - look how poorly Loughborough and Exeter
are doing in Nat2. Loughborough are relegated and Exeter have to
survive a play-off.
Hartpury achieves mid level survival in the Champ by relying on
the Gloucester academy and some paid players to supplement the
students - they dropped the College tag in 2019.
Which means the new franchise is going to have to recruit from
the same pool as the existing Prem sides, which is likely to
drive wages up - while spreading the TV money ever thinner.
And how is a new franchise is a development area, like Kent or
East Anglia going to find supporters.
Building a franchise on Worcester, Bedford or Coventry gives you
a supporter base of a few thousand. Otherwise you are starting
from scratch.
Similarly, if you use the Wasps or London Irish names, you might
attract some of their old support - but how many of those have
switched allegiance in the wilderness years.
But those clubs seem happier being solvent at level 2, than
bankrupting themselves at level 1. And both Bedford and Coventry
have similar problems as Ealing in getting planning permission
to expand their ground and with access.
Worcester does have a suitable stadium. But currently not the
funding, or the squad.
Doncaster is the other side to have passed an MSC audit - but
they are dropping back to part time to cut their losses.
The RFU loves to talk about there being 30 million Rugby fans -
but where are they. They might be liking the odd social media
post. But they certainly are not playing or paying to watch on
a Saturday or a Sunday.
#Post#: 153519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: April 28, 2026, 1:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I've found 1.2million of the 30 million......
The average TV viewership for PREM Rugby 2026 has shown
significant growth, with over 1.2 million viewers tuning in
during a recent round of matches. The cumulative viewership on
TNT Sports and discovery+ has increased by 30% year-on-year,
indicating a strong fan interest in the league. The highest
average audience recorded so far was 330,000 viewers, showcasing
the league's popularity and the increasing demand for its
broadcasts.
Ru
#Post#: 153524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: April 28, 2026, 3:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We used to have a 13 team league and found the players, clubs
need to have an academy and develop a high percentage of their
own players, that is part of becoming a franchise.
Prem players being dual registered to the champ to get game time
is understandable, but how many champ players go the other way,
not many.
The funding of clubs is a matter for them and finding an
investor or benefactor or company, most sports are not
profitable, and football costs far more than rugby, there seems
to be a number of parties interested in investing in the prem
teams, when that path ends, some may want to build a new
franchise.
Building a support base is not a new thing and it has been done
in other sports.
My point was that there is a much bigger gap between the first
and second tier leagues than there is in football, and also to
an extent the complaints that the prem has become a closed shop,
it has if anything become more open, yes you need a suitable
ground and other guarantees to join.
But the theory that you could just put champ teams into the prem
is completely wrong, and people that think otherwise needs to
look at the playing level of the two leagues honestly and not
through rose tinted glasses.
Also they need to accept that if they want to play in the prem
the money is not coming from the RFU, who cut the funding to the
champ teams as it achieved no tangible benefits to rugby and was
just being used to pay journeymen players.
The franchise system was introduced because the old system did
not work.
#Post#: 153525--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Narbia
Date: April 28, 2026, 3:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> But the theory that you could just put champ teams into the
prem is completely wrong, and people that think otherwise needs
to look at the playing level of the two leagues honestly and not
through rose tinted glasses.
>
--- End Quote ---
OK, I'll jump on my hobby horse here.... Isn't at least a year
in the Championship now a prerequisite for entry into the Prem -
as ruled by the RFU/Prem ?
For argument's sake let's take one of the two recently failed GP
teams : who on earth is going to pony up £100 Mn+ on such
uncertainty? Clearly no-one so far.
That's certainly jeopardy with an "investment".
#Post#: 153527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jeopardy and Momentum
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: April 28, 2026, 4:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Narbia link ---
>
> OK, I'll jump on my hobby horse here.... Isn't at least a
year in the Championship now a prerequisite for entry into the
Prem - as ruled by the RFU/Prem ?
> For argument's sake let's take one of the two recently failed
GP teams : who on earth is going to pony up £100 Mn+ on such
uncertainty? Clearly no-one so far.
>
> That's certainly jeopardy with an "investment".
>
--- End Quote ---
The champ is the entry point for new teams to the prem, but you
still need to meet the MOS, something which champ clubs have
failed to do for the last five years.
Time will tell if anyone wants to join, but the put really poor
teams into the league to make the quality better, by creating
jeopardy with relegation concept, is very flawed and more to do
with champ team supporters and fairy tales.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 11
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page