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       #Post#: 153615--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
       Date: April 29, 2026, 10:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Think also the issue with saints is where they've developed
       players from the academy etc who've now turned into seasoned
       England regulars or hopefuls, their new contracts will be a fair
       step up from a few years ago. (Coles, Pollock, Mitchell, Smith,
       Dingwall,Freeman) along with players like Iyogun too. Simply a
       case of longevity and value for money so can understand why
       Furbank might be seen as the least "value" for another big
       contract.
       #Post#: 153618--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: April 29, 2026, 10:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
       >
       > Also Joe Gray was a Saints guy for a few years before we
       picked him up. He hadn't actually been with us very long when we
       won the title. Care I'll grant you although he was a Leeds
       regular by the time they got relegated. Kohn was already a solid
       pro.
       >
       > But I think the important thing to recognise here is that the
       guys who developed with us, and the home grown players, were
       actually good enough that the foreign signings weren't trying to
       put lipstick on a pig.
       >
       > Marler, Brown, Monye, Robshaw, Lowe, Collier - all home grown
       club stars, most of whom ended up being some of the best we've
       ever produced. But a lot of home grown players have tried and
       failed since then. Some have been fabulous - Marchant, Murley,
       Kenningham, Baxter to name a few - but we've also suffered from
       players not living up to their initial promise (Luke Wallace, or
       Mark Lambert, or Ross Chisholm, or Charlie Matthews, or Rob
       Buchanan, or Harry Sloan, or Sam Twomey, or Archie White, or
       George Hammond, or Matas Jurevicius, or Lennox Anyanwu, or Harry
       Browne, or Ollie Lindsay-Hague, etc etc) and at the moment we're
       fielding a lot of guys who are leaning more towards the latter
       group than the former. High hopes for some guys but I'm not sure
       I see Musk, Riley, Bradley, Hyde et al are going to be mentioned
       in the same breath as the products that showed up in the title
       winning sides.
       >
       > We are extremely stretched in certain areas (e.g. 12) and the
       depth of quality is looking very shaky for next season in others
       (wing, prop, hooker, lock). Wanting more signings to address
       these areas makes sense, even if there might be some academy
       players who would be good in a few years.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       We can agree to disagree. I look at our front row options and
       see a number of young guys who could be with us for many years.
       Baxter is already a star. Hobson and Streeter have hit the
       ground running. In the second row, Williams is a beast being
       unleashed. Our back row stocks are embarrassingly good. Friday
       and Smith on the half backs, Waghorn/Bradley at 12. Beard at 13.
       Murley and possibly Cleaves on the wings. Add on one lock and a
       fullback and that's a team with 13 players that we've developed.
       If that team gets plenty of game time together,  they will grow
       together and could surpass the first Prem winning team. All IMO
       of course. But the thought of such a line up gives me plenty of
       hope for the future.
       #Post#: 153627--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: Mayor West
       Date: April 29, 2026, 12:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Some of the players you mentioned Jammy might not have reached
       their potential due to injuries . We don’t always know what
       players are trying to play through before it becomes clear they
       can’t reach the level needed for the Prem. You need a perfect
       storm of everything coming together for long enough to win some
       trophies. It’s not easy and there are so many things beyond
       control like injuries or players not wanting to sign for you or
       leaving for a better offer.
       #Post#: 153629--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: April 29, 2026, 12:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
       >
       > Some of the players you mentioned Jammy might not have reached
       their potential due to injuries . We don’t always know what
       players are trying to play through before it becomes clear they
       can’t reach the level needed for the Prem. You need a perfect
       storm of everything coming together for long enough to win some
       trophies. It’s not easy and there are so many things beyond
       control like injuries or players not wanting to sign for you or
       leaving for a better offer.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Absolutely.
       That injury risk also exists for our promising youngsters (see
       previous discussion about Waghorn) and is an argument for
       strengthening the squad
       #Post#: 153656--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: T-Bone
       Date: April 30, 2026, 7:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
       >
       > We have never been a consistent top four team , mixed with the
       occasional flash of brilliance season, but when we have been
       towards the bottom of the table and even in the relegation year,
       played attractive rugby ,this season and to a large extent last
       season, we have not.
       >
       > I personally can live with that, this year started badly and
       has got worse, and I long ago wrote it off, would like not to
       come bottom, but that is the limit of my hopes.
       >
       > Next year we have to make progress or there has to be major
       change, but I live in hope that we will improve and that we will
       not be crippled by injuries.
       >
       > We have 60% of the coaching staff in place and while it may
       not be what we hoped for need to give them a chance, this year
       they were saddled with someone else’s plan, will be interesting
       to see who the other 40% are and if we sign any other players.
       >
       > Who is in charge is set in stone and nothing is going to
       change that, onwards and upwards.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The excuse that this season the squad and coaches were saddled
       with Wilson's plan frustrates me as much as the posters who say
       we've always been mid table so why do we expect consistent top 4
       finishes.
       Gilmore has had almost a whole season in charge, with two long
       breaks during internationals. Surely any half decent coach could
       have overseen some sort of change / improvement. Instead, after
       promising early showings, we've got steadily worse. It also
       conveniently ignores his pre-existing role in charge of defence.
       It's not like he was parachuted in, new to the club, for the
       opening game of the season. He has played an integral role in
       the fall in standards and has been completely incapable of
       overseeing any improvement - quite the opposite. While
       overseeing the ongoing decline he had regularly sought to
       absolve himself from any blame and put out dreadful messaging
       #Post#: 153687--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: Bucksquin
       Date: May 1, 2026, 1:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm with T-Bone on this one. If the club was "saddled with
       someone else's plan" at the start of the season, how long does
       it take to start a new plan? Does it take a whole season (which
       is where we're at now)? And what, exactly, was that original
       plan, and how was it flawed? No one has ever explained that.
       Gilmore was the defence coach before the season started, so
       presumably he was happy with his own defence plan? He wasn't
       "saddled" with that. How well has that worked out this season?
       Answer: the worst defence in the league, aside from Newcastle.
       The only excuse for the coaches is the level of injuries. Is
       that enough to justify the abysmal results, bordering on
       humiliating at times? It's not as if we're the only ones with
       injuries.
       How credible is it that Gilmore got the job after a "worldwide
       search" with an "open chequebook"? Was it a case of "This is the
       best we can do with the money we're prepared to spend"?
       #Post#: 153693--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: Rugbycat
       Date: May 1, 2026, 5:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I believe that going into the season and then changing coach
       just before the season started is not an ideal plan.
       The poor start to the season and avalanche of injuries have not
       been exactly helpful either.
       I am not a great fan of the present coach, and would have
       preferred a different coach, and the messaging from the club
       around worldwide searches and the season being over, were
       stupid.
       But we have decided to appoint our coach and we have him in
       place for next season, so we can all take the we are all doomed
       approach or give them a chance, and judge on next seasons
       results.
       And in fairness I did say if it does not improve next season
       then we need to make major changes, and that would need to be
       from top to bottom.
       We all know how bad this season has been, we all know what the
       coaching setup is for next season, constantly saying that it is
       not ideal is counterproductive, and all I was saying is give
       them a chance with a pre season and some input into the playing
       staff.
       #Post#: 153698--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: RodneyRegis
       Date: May 1, 2026, 8:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Counterproductive to what?
       #Post#: 153703--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: Rugbycat
       Date: May 1, 2026, 9:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
       >
       > Counterproductive to what?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       perhaps futile would have been a better word to use.
       #Post#: 153716--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Team vs Sale
   DIR By: Brown Bottle
       Date: May 1, 2026, 2:17 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
       >
       > perhaps futile would have been a better word to use.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Posting on here is futile anyway but this is where we can
       express our disgruntlement and why not?
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