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#Post#: 152681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: April 10, 2026, 4:34 am
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There is enough technology around now to manage the offsides,
line out throws, foot in touch and forward passes so why not go
that route? It avoids the ambiguity and can be managed as a
clear Yes/No response so wouldn't ned to plagued with the VAR
issues in wendyball.
That way, the ref can focus on the more technical pieces.
#Post#: 152683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: never sleep
Date: April 10, 2026, 5:15 am
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I'm not sure there is actually a problem that needs fixing other
than educating the TV commentators.
I think that a major issue is that the TV commentators criticise
the ref's calls. They are commenting based on their viewpoint
50m away from the action. The ref is usually a few meters away
from the action and (more crucially) isn't biased towards one
team and actually knows the laws.
From watching games, I think that often, the ref looks at a
breakdown holistically and decides whether one team is stopping
it from being a fair contest. If they decide that one team is
stopping it from being a fair contest, then they blow the
whistle and then play it back in their mind to work out which
specific law way being infringed.
So people will bemoan that someone entered a ruck illegally from
one team. But, they completely miss that one of their own team
hadn't released the ball carrier very quickly. These 2 events
may happen almost simultaneously. But the ref then works out
which infringement had the biggest impact on the breakdown not
being fair.
Trying to replace this purely with technology would be a
challenge at the moment.
Remember, rugby has "laws" and not "rules".
Rules are basically black and white. A ball goes forward or it
doesn't.
Laws need to be interpreted. A ball appears to go backwards due
to the angle of the releasing hand. In other words, these are
subjective and a ref is completely within his rights to make a
certain call if it is as he sees it at that time.
#Post#: 152684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: never sleep
Date: April 10, 2026, 5:20 am
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On another note, it is interesting that Major League Rugby is
giving more power to the ref.
In the new season, the ref is basically the boss and makes all
calls.
My understanding is that he can ask the TMO for replays or
explanation of events. But the TMO and assistant refs can't
overrule.
#Post#: 152687--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: April 10, 2026, 6:14 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> On another note, it is interesting that Major League Rugby is
giving more power to the ref.
> In the new season, the ref is basically the boss and makes all
calls.
> My understanding is that he can ask the TMO for replays or
explanation of events. But the TMO and assistant refs can't
overrule.
>
--- End Quote ---
US system.
HTML https://www.majorleague.rugby/news/rrsblog
World Rugby
HTML https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugby/document/2022/06/01/4d59f755-1fec-4e61-a006-3874bd57508d/2022-TMO-protocol-Approved-by-Council-May-2022.pdf
#Post#: 152689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: never sleep
Date: April 10, 2026, 6:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> US system.
>
>
HTML https://www.majorleague.rugby/news/rrsblog
>
> World Rugby
>
>
HTML https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugby/document/2022/06/01/4d59f755-1fec-4e61-a006-3874bd57508d/2022-TMO-protocol-Approved-by-Council-May-2022.pdf
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
It has all changed since then :-)
HTML https://rugbyreferee.net/2026/03/25/mlr-scrap-tmo-in-favour-of-pitchside-review-process-for-new-us-rugby-season/
#Post#: 152691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: April 10, 2026, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> It has all changed since then :-)
>
>
HTML https://rugbyreferee.net/2026/03/25/mlr-scrap-tmo-in-favour-of-pitchside-review-process-for-new-us-rugby-season/
>
--- End Quote ---
I think they are the same system, mine is aimed at Fans and
yours at Referees.
#Post#: 152692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: never sleep
Date: April 10, 2026, 6:42 am
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Sorry - I missed that you had 2 links on your post.
#Post#: 152695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: April 10, 2026, 9:00 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> Sorry - I missed that you had 2 links on your post.
>
--- End Quote ---
No problem, yours has referee friendly flowcharts, i can’t
decide if it is just to save money on a more highly qualified
TMO, or to speed up the game.
HTML https://www.therugbynetwork.com/
If anyone feels the need to have a look at Major league rugby.
#Post#: 152698--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 10, 2026, 11:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> I'm not sure there is actually a problem that needs fixing
other than educating the TV commentators.
> I think that a major issue is that the TV commentators
criticise the ref's calls. They are commenting based on their
viewpoint 50m away from the action. The ref is usually a few
meters away from the action and (more crucially) isn't biased
towards one team and actually knows the laws.
>
--- End Quote ---
TV commentators are generally very circumspect about criticising
the ref’s calls; they know the level of abuse refs can get and
it’s very rare that they outright disagree with a call - even if
they’ve been advocating for something different before the
decision is given.
I don’t think refs are biased towards one team or another, but
they are humans like the rest of us ans susceptible to bias.
They prepare for the match by looking at how the teams play, and
that prepares their brains to react faster to certain patterns
than others. But I don’t think they get enough training on how
to eliminate biases in their decision making and adjust during a
game.
Against Sale, I think the ref began to see patterns in Quins’
play and reacted to that when he saw it, but that also blinded
him to seeing patterns from Sale. Compare how slow he was to
blow the whistle when giving a pen to Quins compared to Sale.
(And I don’t have any other explanation for how a Sale player
stood offside in Friday’s passing line didn’t provoke any
reaction from the ref)
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> From watching games, I think that often, the ref looks at a
breakdown holistically and decides whether one team is stopping
it from being a fair contest. If they decide that one team is
stopping it from being a fair contest, then they blow the
whistle and then play it back in their mind to work out which
specific law way being infringed.
>
--- End Quote ---
The best refs do - Wayne Barnes was very good at it - but not
all of them do it consistently. And the pattern of allowing
players to enter the ruck from all sides is now so prevalent
that it’s hard to imagine that there’s not some interpretation
relaxing the entry point that they’re responding to.
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> So people will bemoan that someone entered a ruck illegally
from one team. But, they completely miss that one of their own
team hadn't released the ball carrier very quickly. These 2
events may happen almost simultaneously. But the ref then works
out which infringement had the biggest impact on the breakdown
not being fair.
> Trying to replace this purely with technology would be a
challenge at the moment.
>
--- End Quote ---
Again, good reffing is generally to tell the defenders to leave
the ball until the tackler is out of the way. And that’s
generally policed quite well. It’s completely ignoring side
entries that baffles me.
--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> Remember, rugby has "laws" and not "rules".
> Rules are basically black and white. A ball goes forward or it
doesn't.
> Laws need to be interpreted. A ball appears to go backwards
due to the angle of the releasing hand. In other words, these
are subjective and a ref is completely within his rights to make
a certain call if it is as he sees it at that time.
>
--- End Quote ---
There are also the Laws of Physics in play. A ball passed by a
player running at speed goes forward relative to the pitch. It
can’t not do. A smart ball can measure whether the passer added
any forward momentum to it (and interestingly when they were
used at the U20s RWC flagged very few forward passes), but
without that the most objective measure the ref has is to look
at the direction of the hands. It’s trying to be black and white
about something where our eyes can and do fool us (and most fans
seem to understand neither the Laws of Rugby nor the Laws of
Physics as they apply to the situation)
#Post#: 152709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Have Quins lost the plot on modern refereeing?
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: April 10, 2026, 12:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The Law of Relative Velocity, right? Is that the one you’re
referring to? The apple core out of the car window? Yes, I hear
you. And while you’re there, don’t forget Angular Dynamics, Sir
Isaac Newton’s First Law of Motion (aka, The Law of Inertia),
Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and, last but not least,
Galilean Transformation, which – as I’m sure we all know – is a
set of classical equations that relate to the space and time co-
ordinates of two objects moving at a constant velocity relative
to each other and which formally express the ideas that (a)
space and time are absolute; (b) that length, time and mass are
independent of the relative motion of the observer but that (c)
the speed of light depends on the relative motion of the
observer.
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