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#Post#: 147928--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: FatQuin
Date: January 15, 2026, 5:22 pm
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And what happened to Sean Long returning then?
#Post#: 147929--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 16, 2026, 12:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: connaughtquin link ---
>
> I'm wary of someone who has been axed with 2 years of his
contract left plus with rumours of an unhappy dressing room.
>
> IMHO Vern Cotter has more experience and would be my choice
although I've not heard if he is a better breakdancer than Scott
Robertson?
>
--- End Quote ---
I don’t think it’s a good idea to judge someone’s club coaching
ability by their international performance - especially if it’s
their first international gig and doubly so if they went
straight into coaching a Tier 1 team with no prior internatioal
experience.
The two are very different jobs, which is why I don’t think any
major union should appoint someone to the top job straight from
the club game. The list of successes is short, and the list of
failures is long. Joe Schmidt succeeded (up to a point) but had
essentially been coaching an international side in Leinster
anyway. Rassie is the exception that proves the rule. Against
that you have a list that includes Johnson, Lancaster, John
Mitchell (first time around), Graham Henry (but the ABs gave him
a second chance), arguably Toonie and now Robertson.
The club will undoubtedly be talking to a range of top coaches,
but Robertson’s style at the Crusaders was to have a strong pack
that created space for a back division with Mo’unga to create a
bit of magic. That is pretty much the template that has worked
for Quins. Plus, he is available and may want a job that takes
him out of the AB spotlight and give him a bit of room to
re-establish himself.
I didn’t think he was a realistic option the last time we were
in the market for a head coach, because it was so obvious that
the ABs wanted him and vice versa. That is no longer the case.
#Post#: 147935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 16, 2026, 3:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FatQuin link ---
>
> And what happened to Sean Long returning then?
>
--- End Quote ---
He's here, as a consultant. Mike Brown mentioned him in his
post.
#Post#: 147937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 16, 2026, 3:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
poorfour - I agree in general, though Kiwi coaches usually seem
to take to international rugby like a duck to water. However
there's a reason why historically NZR has pushed its top coaches
to get international experience with other teams first before
coming to the ABs. It's a sign of how desperate they were to
secure Robertson that they picked him up in the first place (and
how insecure they are about NZ's relatively ahistoric place in
the pack of international sides)
#Post#: 147941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: January 16, 2026, 3:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Also, in the past NZR have often had the successor in the fold
as an assistant to the current head coach off the ABs so that
there's a sense of continuity and planning. That didn't happen
with Robertson. He jumped straight from Super Rugby to the top
job because of the pressure to lose Foster, even though he got
them to within a pint of winning the World Cup.
I think the issue is more that NZ aren't the preeminent force on
the international scene that they once were, and both Foster and
now Robertson have been moved on for failing to meet
expectations that frankly are beyond what should realistically
be set in terms of the All Blacks as an international side ..
#Post#: 147948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 16, 2026, 4:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> I don’t think it’s a good idea to judge someone’s club
coaching ability by their international performance - especially
if it’s their first international gig and doubly so if they went
straight into coaching a Tier 1 team with no prior internatioal
experience.
>
> The two are very different jobs, which is why I don’t think
any major union should appoint someone to the top job straight
from the club game. The list of successes is short, and the list
of failures is long. Joe Schmidt succeeded (up to a point) but
had essentially been coaching an international side in Leinster
anyway. Rassie is the exception that proves the rule. Against
that you have a list that includes Johnson, Lancaster, John
Mitchell (first time around), Graham Henry (but the ABs gave him
a second chance), arguably Toonie and now Robertson.
>
> The club will undoubtedly be talking to a range of top
coaches, but Robertson’s style at the Crusaders was to have a
strong pack that created space for a back division with Mo’unga
to create a bit of magic. That is pretty much the template that
has worked for Quins. Plus, he is available and may want a job
that takes him out of the AB spotlight and give him a bit of
room to re-establish himself.
>
> I didn’t think he was a realistic option the last time we were
in the market for a head coach, because it was so obvious that
the ABs wanted him and vice versa. That is no longer the case.
>
--- End Quote ---
Three points:
Mitchell was involved in International rugby before he got the
NZ job - he was part of Woodward's England set up
Talking of Woodward, he came straight from club rugby to
international and did OK
So did Galthié
I'm afraid Rassie isn't the exception that proves the rule
#Post#: 147949--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: January 16, 2026, 4:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Fearless Fred link ---
>
> Also, in the past NZR have often had the successor in the fold
as an assistant to the current head coach off the ABs so that
there's a sense of continuity and planning. That didn't happen
with Robertson. He jumped straight from Super Rugby to the top
job because of the pressure to lose Foster, even though he got
them to within a pint of winning the World Cup.
>
> I think the issue is more that NZ aren't the preeminent force
on the international scene that they once were, and both Foster
and now Robertson have been moved on for failing to meet
expectations that frankly are beyond what should realistically
be set in terms of the All Blacks as an international side ..
>
--- End Quote ---
Prior to the 1980's ban, New Zealand had won 15 matches against
South Africa and lost 20 with 2 draws, so the present is also a
reflection of the past, the New Zealand public are wanting a
return to the 1992-2019 period which is not likely.
Sacking coaches with a 74% record, is not that tenable.
#Post#: 147953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: January 16, 2026, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Three points:
>
> Mitchell was involved in International rugby before he got the
NZ job - he was part of Woodward's England set up
> Talking of Woodward, he came straight from club rugby to
international and did OK
> So did Galthié
>
> I'm afraid Rassie isn't the exception that proves the rule
>
--- End Quote ---
Mitchell was also a Forwards coach/ Technical advisor, with
Ireland for a short time, before Paul Turner brought him to
Sale.
#Post#: 147954--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 16, 2026, 4:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> Prior to the 1980's ban, New Zealand had won 15 matches
against South Africa and lost 20 with 2 draws, so the present is
also a reflection of the past, the New Zealand public are
wanting a return to the 1992-2019 period which is not likely.
>
> Sacking coaches with a 74% record, is not that tenable.
>
--- End Quote ---
Makes sense as Eddie's England record was only 73%. So close!
#Post#: 147955--------------------------------------------------
Re: Scott Robertson
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 16, 2026, 4:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think it makes sense to change coaches if the evidence
suggests they're a significant part of the underperformance (and
in that respect the winning % is a little misleading - the
problems with NZ were very clear in recent years), and if the
top brass AND the senior players are unhappy with the decisions
& the approach then I can't see how it's not a good idea to make
a change.
This is why I'd love to know more about what the issues are. I'm
reminded of Brian Ashton, whose approach made a lot of sense and
yet ended up being completely unsuitable for England and led to
a player revolt on the way to a RWC final.
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Three points:
>
> Mitchell was involved in International rugby before he got the
NZ job - he was part of Woodward's England set up
> Talking of Woodward, he came straight from club rugby to
international and did OK
> So did Galthié
>
> I'm afraid Rassie isn't the exception that proves the rule
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, it's not quite that Rassie is the only one, butttt...
Woodward's an interesting case study. Part of the switch from
the amateur era to the professional one, something he got right.
But he might still have lost his job after the 1999 RWC - well
beaten by NZ in the pools and thumped by SA in the QFs, at home,
having blown a grand slam at Wembley in the 5N. Don't know how
relevant he is to the modern day but he wasn't a success until
2000 onwards. Perhaps a more experienced HC/DoR wouldn't have
made the mistakes he made in those first few years. It's similar
to how Lancaster got on IMO.
Galthie was taking over an absolutely hatstand operation where
one of the strongest unions in terms of player depth and money
(France >>>> England in that respect) was making an absolute
mess of the success generated by their club game. It made sense
to hire someone deeply embedded in that club game, and it's not
like they could mess up any further.
Mitchell being a defence coach for a bit isn't quite the same
thing. NZ specifically wants people to get experience of being
the head honcho because it's such a unique role, and that's why
Gatland, Hansen, Smith, and Schmidt all took the paths they did.
Other countries were in less of a position to be choosy though,
and if everyone did as poorfour suggested, there'd be no new
international coaches :D
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