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#Post#: 146629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: Scooter
Date: December 27, 2025, 6:12 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Ah, thought it was you. Merry Christmas Toga/Marsile, I can
see why this is like catnip for you.
>
> Then again I remember you loudly claiming that London Irish
had done a far better job with their academy than us, which was
very funny especially when the only Irish fan we both know told
you you were talking nonsense
>
--- End Quote ---
This is all fascinating and I am sure you know what you're
talking about but I am talking about the Quins academy. How many
world class players has it produced?
#Post#: 146631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 27, 2025, 6:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scooter link ---
>
>
> This is all fascinating and I am sure you know what you're
talking about but I am talking about the Quins academy. How many
world class players has it produced?
>
--- End Quote ---
Wow, the goalposts have moved already.
Anyway, the Quins academy is the primary reason why we won our
last title, and this decade we've produced 4 England
internationals to Saracens' 3. In fairness to Saracens, one of
those 3 is the legitimately world class Ben Earl, so well done
there.
Trouble is we all know there's zero point trying to have a
discussion with you on this, because you start from the basis
that you hate this club and don't rate any of its players, break
out in hives at the very suggestion of discussing Quins in good
faith, and are wildly ignorant to boot, so it's like arguing
with one of the more pointless AIs. You don't know anything
about the club or have anything useful to add, so I can't
imagine why you think your Twitter-level hot takes are going to
be welcome.
#Post#: 146632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: Yareet
Date: December 27, 2025, 6:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scooter link ---
>
>
> This is all fascinating and I am sure you know what you're
talking about but I am talking about the Quins academy. How many
world class players has it produced?
>
--- End Quote ---
I wouldn’t say they’re all World class (which anyway is almost
completely subjective) but when they’re fit, of those still
playing I think you could make a decent Prem match XV from:
Baxter
Jibulu
Collier
Treadwell
Tizard
?
Kenningham
Chisholm
Friday
Smith
Cleaves
Beard
Marchant
Murley
?
Chuck in Dombrandt and Northmore who are the next best thing to
Academy products and it’s not terrible.
#Post#: 146633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: dinsdale
Date: December 27, 2025, 6:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scooter link ---
>
>
> This is all fascinating and I am sure you know what you're
talking about but I am talking about the Quins academy. How many
world class players has it produced?
>
--- End Quote ---
You don't need world class players to beat Saracens though, do
you Toga.
#Post#: 146634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 27, 2025, 6:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> I wouldn’t say they’re all World class (which anyway is almost
completely subjective) but when they’re fit, of those still
playing I think you could make a decent Prem match XV from:
>
> Baxter
> Jibulu
> Collier
> Treadwell
> Tizard
> ?
> Kenningham
> Chisholm
>
> Friday
> Smith
> Cleaves
> Beard
> Marchant
> Murley
> ?
>
> Chuck in Dombrandt and Northmore who are the next best thing
to Academy products and it’s not terrible.
>
--- End Quote ---
FB would probably be Slevin, who was an England age group 15
before he moved to 10. Blindside I guess it'd be current Quins
regular Zach Carr.
You've also got British Lion & current Toulon tighthead Kyle
Sinckler.
But you won't get anything except sneering in response, so...
#Post#: 146635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: Scooter
Date: December 27, 2025, 6:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> I wouldn’t say they’re all World class (which anyway is almost
completely subjective) but when they’re fit, of those still
playing I think you could make a decent Prem match XV from:
>
> Baxter
> Jibulu
> Collier
> Treadwell
> Tizard
> ?
> Kenningham
> Chisholm
>
> Friday
> Smith
> Cleaves
> Beard
> Marchant
> Murley
> ?
>
> Chuck in Dombrandt and Northmore who are the next best thing
to Academy products and it’s not terrible.
>
--- End Quote ---
"Not terrible" is about as good as it gets.
Marcus Smith is a great player as long as he plays at 10, but
you'd still have him behind two others in the England pecking
order. Baxter is impressive and I suspect he might end his
career with more caps than Marcus does.
#Post#: 146636--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 27, 2025, 7:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, to address the idea that you can't buy in culture and
it's the academy (?) instead, quite famously Saracens changed
their culture by a) getting rid of a huge number of largely home
grown players and coaches and importing a ton of overseas
players and coaches, and it paid off:
Saracens first title win...
Saracens: Goode; Strettle, Wyles, Barritt, Short; Farrell, De
Kock; Stevens, Brits, Nieto, Borthwick, Botha, K Brown, Burger,
Joubert.
Replacements: Wigglesworth for de Kock (50), Gill for Stevens
(62), Du Plessis for Nieto (60), Vyvyan for Botha (57).
So that's Strettle, Wyles, Barritt, de Kock, Stevens, Brits,
Nieto, Borthwick, Botha, Brown, Burger, Joubert, Wigglesworth,
Gill, Du Plessis who were imported into that team.
Or take a look at perennial underachievers Bath, who have spent
years wasting talent before they stopped doing silly stuff, got
Van Graan in, and won the final with this team:
Bath: De Glanville; Cokanasiga, Ojomoh, Redpath, Muir; Russell,
Spencer (c); Obano, Dunn, Du Toit; Roux, Ewels, Hill, Pepper,
Reid.
Replacements: Annett, Van Wyk, Stuart, Molony, Bayliss,
Carr-Smith, Donoghue, Barbeary.
So... on top of guys like Cokanasiga, Redpath, Muir, Stuart, etc
- signings from other clubs that were around before they changed
their fortunes - they added the likes of Finn Russell, Ben
Spencer, Thomas du Toit, Quinn Roux, Ross Molony, Ted Hill, Guy
Pepper, Alfie Barbeary, Francois van Wyk, and the sadly injured
for the final Ollie Lawrence.
Of course, Bath have splashed the cash a few times over the
years - we all remember the very funny Stuart Hooper era - but
it takes the right coaches and the right imports to change a
side's culture. Which they've successfully done.
So really, while a good academy is obviously important to
success, it doesn't really drive the culture of the senior team.
It goes the other way: the academy takes the lead from the
senior team and the overall coaching ethos at the club.
#Post#: 146637--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: December 27, 2025, 7:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you may have overcomplicated things for your target
audience, JG.
#Post#: 146639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: AAjnr
Date: December 27, 2025, 7:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> it takes the right coaches and the right imports to change a
side's culture.
>
--- End Quote ---
To support this, Brian O'Driscoll's comment was that we need to
bring in a couple of high level players to turn us around. I'd
agree change to the coaching set up is crucial too. Tactically
we've not been sound since 2021ish
#Post#: 146640--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: Archquin
Date: December 27, 2025, 8:03 am
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Yes a couple of hard hitting Springboks would help 🤔
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