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#Post#: 146347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 22, 2025, 1:53 pm
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--- Quote from: championes link ---
>
> DC made an interesting comment post
> match about it looking like a load of individuals and it’s v
hard to argue.
>
> We’ve looked totally disjointed for two years now barring 3 or
4 performances across those seasons - mostly against Sarries.
>
> No shape in attack, total absence of leadership anywhere on
the field - even when all the “leaders” are there. Marcus seems
to offer little in the way of command on the field at all when
our backs are against the wall (eg that whole match).
>
> Rather than slow things down, hit tackles hard and reset - we
get individual players trying to throw ludicrous passes or
attempt cross field kicks when a few more phases might have been
helpful.
>
> It sadly feels like we need a massive overhaul of the dressing
room - especially in terms of attitude. How many times this
season have the looked like they just don’t want to be there?
It’s really bad.
>
> Maybe a strong DoR could knock it out of them but the Big Game
was almost more dispiriting than the abject JK era
>
> We have a teamsheet groaning with internationals and top
quality Prem players and we can’t show up.
>
> Have a feeling it’s only Quins who can make that line up
perform so badly - if they had a different club badge you just
can’t see anyone performing so badly.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you've wildly misunderstood Danny's comment in favour of
your years long drum-banging about player power. The point isn't
that the players are all deliberately doing what they want and
are being too individualistic. It's that they are poorly coached
and the staff have done a terrible job of putting together a
cohesive game plan and organised attacking and defensive
structures.
Players attempting offloads that aren't on? Apart from that
absolutely not being the problem against Bristol - poor
execution of skills was a huge issue, not the decision to throw
an offload that went wrong - it's also pretty much what our
attacking game (such as it is) actually relies on! Quins are
deliberately set up to be an off the cuff side who use the high
risk plays to score tries.
I mean, you only have to read the press that comes out of the
club about the Quins style of play, about players being told to
trust their skills, about wanting to express themselves, etc etc
to know that this kind of play is what the coaches are looking
for. Quins weren't doing it under Gustard, and for a period
under Wilson, because during those times the team was being
coached into a much more conservative game plan. In all cases
the team is basically doing what they're told!
Fundamentally, if you're looking at a game like that and
deciding the problem is that the players are making decisions
contrary to how they've been coached, rather than a fundamental
issue with skills, then surely there'd be some evidence of a
good and coherent game plan that these players are occasionally
ruining. There isn't.
Player power is absolutely not the problem. We have fewer big
personalities than most other teams - certainly the top 6 sides
- and the lack of leadership is a huge problem. Every sports
team I can think of that had an issue with player power had a
heap of very successful and very experienced players who were
very hard headed. If you think Quins has a bunch of those, then
please let us know who they are so that we can all start a
campaign for them to get selected ahead of the guys we're
currently relying on.
#Post#: 146350--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: December 22, 2025, 2:12 pm
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Massive culture change is needed as it’s pretty much rinse and
repeat for over a decade. Usually one good season is followed by
several seasons on a downward trajectory before reaching rock
bottom, which is pretty much where we are at now.
Changing the CEO isn’t the silver bullet so to speak but it’s
the first thing I’d do, and then bring in a proper head coach
who’s experienced (and not someone promoted above their ability,
which we’ve done with Kingston, Gustard, matson and Wilson). New
coaching set up, new vision. The squad isn’t bad, but we haven’t
got a good leadership team on the field so that also needs
addressing with some good recruitment as I don’t think anyone in
the team is capable of really being the Vos or Robshaw we need
#Post#: 146353--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: December 22, 2025, 3:57 pm
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I’m not here to defend Dalrymple in particular, but I just don’t
really get how anyone thinks that him going would have any
obvious impact on the team on the pitch? I get the sentiment
behind it, but what problem would it actually solve?
In comparison, changing the coaches would hopefully have an
immediate impact.
The ‘culture’ piece some are commenting on predates Dalrymple by
a long way too. We’ve been a bit like this for as long as I can
remember …
#Post#: 146357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: never sleep
Date: December 22, 2025, 4:33 pm
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Also, I'm not sure how the employment tribunal would go if you
were to sack the CEO on these grounds.
And, good luck on then trying to employ another high quality CEO
on short notice when they know that losing a few games gets you
sacked.
#Post#: 146361--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: December 23, 2025, 2:25 am
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I wouldn't say a CEO's job is under threat from just "losing a
few games" which suggests a knee jerk reaction. He's been here
since 2019 and there has been a fair few losses in that time but
he's never been called into question as its more a coaching
issue than the CEO. David Ellis was here for a fair few years
and stepped down really when things weren't too dissimilar now
when things were bad with the Kingston era but I think he
realized he took the club as far as it could and needed new
vision/direction which is maybe where we find ourself now. That
dosen't mean his tenure is a failure, as we won the title with
him as CEO, but simply just a case of like most things in life
where things get stale after a while and its time to move on.
Which is pretty much like everything in life for work or
relationships. If its a straight choice, I'd go with removing
the entire coaching team though if it was one or the other
#Post#: 146362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: never sleep
Date: December 23, 2025, 2:31 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> Changing the CEO isn’t the silver bullet so to speak but it’s
the first thing I’d do
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> That dosen't mean his tenure is a failure, as we won the title
with him as CEO, but simply just a case of like most things in
life where things get stale after a while and its time to move
on.
>
--- End Quote ---
So - I'm confused.
Are you changing your opinion from having him "changed" to
hoping that he will "move on"?
They really are quite different.
#Post#: 146363--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: never sleep
Date: December 23, 2025, 2:34 am
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On area that we may struggle with in changing some of the
coaches is that as far as I know, Bomb and NEv are permies. (I
don't know about the rest.)
So - the choices are not so easy with what can be done in that
area.
It may need someone to take a more holistic view and see that
can be done to improve their skills.
#Post#: 146364--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: December 23, 2025, 2:47 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> So - I'm confused.
> Are you changing your opinion from having him "changed" to
hoping that he will "move on"?
> They really are quite different.
>
--- End Quote ---
No, I'd sack him if essentially he was still in post without an
exit planned and coaching if it was down to me. I personally
don't think it would come to that though as most would want to
avoid having that on their CV. If the option was one or the
other and that's it, then I'd have the coaching set up go. I
think a new CEO with a new vision is most important for the long
run though, and ideally one with a rugby background who then can
oversee a new coaching team in place. Both new CEO/Coaching set
up will be needed for proper change though, as lets face it
we've interviewed and given the top coaching job to 4 candidates
who weren't good enough for that role so the CEO during that
periods judgement has to be questioned.
#Post#: 146371--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 23, 2025, 4:49 am
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Do rugby CEOs move on very often? I'm struggling to think of
many. Maybe when Tigers had their run of terrible coaching
appointments?
#Post#: 146372--------------------------------------------------
Re: Much blame to go around. Let’s take a temperature take.
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: December 23, 2025, 4:58 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Do rugby CEOs move on very often? I'm struggling to think of
many. Maybe when Tigers had their run of terrible coaching
appointments?
>
--- End Quote ---
Just picking a few teams...
Saracens, new in post this Summer. The previous CEO left by
mutual consent after being in post since Jan 2024.
Gloucester, been in post since Sep 2023. Previous CEO was in
post for 4 years. Reason for leaving was essentially believing
someone else needs to take the club onto the next steps of its
journey
Bristol, been in post since Sept this year, previous CEO was
there for about 3 years (Left to join WRU)
So just looking at those, ours actually appear to have longer
than average tenures
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