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#Post#: 146051--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: Yareet
Date: December 18, 2025, 8:53 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> yes, he's obviously played fewer matches because of injury,
but he's also made around 14-15 appearances every season which
is a decent chunk. And the vast majority of those have been on
the bench. That's far more appearances than our sicknote Lewies,
who usually starts when fit.
>
> I think we've all been bamboozled by his early promise and
assumed it was a case of Quirke grabbing starts when fit, but
it's clearly not happening.
>
--- End Quote ---
I wonder how much of that is Raffi being eased back in from the
bench and then breaking down again. Do you by any chance have
the stats about consecutive starts or gaps between games?
#Post#: 146052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 18, 2025, 8:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> I wonder how much of that is Raffi being eased back in from
the bench and then breaking down again. Do you by any chance
have the stats about consecutive starts or gaps between games?
>
--- End Quote ---
The data's all here:
HTML https://all.rugby/player/raffi-quirke
It's a mixed bag, but there's several examples of him getting
3,4,5 appearances in a row but mostly staying on the bench or
getting a solitary start in the middle. Nothing to point to him
developing into a starter as he plays more games.
#Post#: 146065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: FishQuin
Date: December 19, 2025, 4:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> I must admit I'm struggling to see how the Saints captain and
superb international fullback with a great all round game
doesn't improve our XV. And he's 29 - hardly old!
>
--- End Quote ---
I did say I didn’t think he significantly improves the XV.
I can see the argument that Furbank is a bit better than Tyrone
but it could go either way. I don’t think there is a huge amount
in it. On Tyrone’s day he is capable of out playing Furbank. And
vice versa. But either way, I wouldn’t call it significant.
As for age, at 29 he is coming out of his prime. He’ll be nearer
30 by the time he gets here, if he comes. Not the age profile of
a player I want us to sign. We have a starter level fullback who
is 2 years younger. If we are going to invest in a second
fullback, for me it should be a younger option than Tyrone.
Someone with their best years ahead of them.
#Post#: 146069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 19, 2025, 5:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> He’ll be nearer 30 by the time he gets here, if he comes
--- End Quote ---
Well yeah, that's how time works! He's actually nearer to 30
with every second of time that passes :P
I think it's an interesting discussion but I'd argue that in the
modern game, 26-34 is the prime. Furbank is a better player now
than at any point previously in his career, so we'd be getting a
player at his peak. Anyone sub-30 is definitely not "old" in
rugby terms. Finn Russell was 30 when he signed for Bath and
that's turned out pretty well for them.
Mike Brown was 35 when he left Quins and was 28 when he won
player of the 6N. Maro Itoje is 31. Sam Underhill is 29. Alex
Mitchell is 28. Genge is 30. LCD is 32. Jamie George is 35 now
and probably tailing off a bit but at 29 he still had years of
world class play ahead of him. Elliot Daly has had his injury
problems but was legitimately excellent on the Lions tour and
he's 4 years older than Furbank.
Alternatively, look at the Saffers... Marx 31, Thomas du Toit
30, Wilco Louw 31, Ox Nche 30, Etzebeth 34, Snyman 30, Kolisi
34, PSDT 33, Kwagga 32, Wiese 30, Reinach 35, Grant Williams 29,
Kriel 31, Kolbe 32, etc etc. Signing any of those guys at 29
would have been incredible! Furbank is the same age as Damien
Penaud and a year younger than Thomas Ramos and no-one thinks
those guys are over the hill! :-)
Or, to put it another way... he's a year older than Northmore,
Dombrandt, and Will Evans, is 2 years younger than Guido Petti,
and just 2 years older than Tyrone...
Appreciate the discussion on his quality is purely subjective so
I won't repeat myself there.
#Post#: 146080--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: December 19, 2025, 6:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FishQuin link ---
>
> I did say I didn’t think he significantly improves the XV.
>
> I can see the argument that Furbank is a bit better than
Tyrone but it could go either way. I don’t think there is a huge
amount in it. On Tyrone’s day he is capable of out playing
Furbank. And vice versa. But either way, I wouldn’t call it
significant.
>
--- End Quote ---
Tyrone can be electric and is a greater running threat ball in
hand. But Furbank is a more rounded player and he has an
excellent kicking game, which is Tyrone's biggest weakness.
In the rare scenario that everyone is fit and firing, I think
it's Furbank at fullback with Tyrone and Murley on the wings,
and Isgro with the bench spot. But there's loads of optionality
to tailor it to the opposition.
What this signing will bring is strength in depth, and it gives
us yet another player who is competent in multiple positions. It
was mentioned by someone else earlier in the thread, but Furbank
is more than handy at 10 so his arrival makes a 6-2 bench split
that much easier.
I like Nick David and I don't think he's had enough of a run at
15, but when called upon his form has been up and down and for
whatever reason he's never really nailed down his place in the
23, and Anderson isn't at the required level.
A matchday 15 or 23 with Furbank and Green both in it is an
exciting prospect.
#Post#: 146091--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: December 19, 2025, 8:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If anyone's still in any doubt, apparently his mum is following
Quins on Insta!
#Post#: 146093--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: FishQuin
Date: December 19, 2025, 9:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> I think it's an interesting discussion but I'd argue that in
the modern game, 26-34 is the prime. Furbank is a better player
now than at any point previously in his career, so we'd be
getting a player at his peak.
>
--- End Quote ---
Most of the guys you’ve mentioned in the +30 category are
forwards, who do tend to peak later. It’s also fair to say that
for the most part (maybe unanimously) they were playing better
when they were 29/30 than they are now. Also, wings and
fullbacks tend to peak earliest. Yes, you get the likes of a
Daly or a Le Roux who have a late bloom, but I’m not sure
they’re any better now than they were at 28/29 and I think they
are more the exception than the rule.
Mike Brown probably peaked just before the 2015 World Cup… he
would have been about 29 and in my opinion was the best 15 in
the world at the time. He got his last England cap when he was
32. It was a pretty rapid decline. Kolbe has nowhere near the
impact now that he had around the 2019 World Cup. Penaud is
(arguably) no longer the premier wing in France, with that young
lad Bielle-Biarrey passing him.
I’m not saying players are no good after 30. But more often than
not they’re on the decline. Quins are going to pay Furbank as a
player at the peak of his powers but he’ll probably only be at
that level for 1 season at most. Every year after that is likely
to be a drop off. Or worse yet, with his recent injury history,
he might already be on that decline.
As for comparing against the Quins guys. Petti is a good player
and in a position we are catastrophically weak in. I’m not a big
fan of his age profile but I can get on board with it because of
how desperate we were for 2nd row reinforcements. We don’t have
that issue at 15, where we are well enough stocked. Northmore,
Dombrandt and Evans were all brought in at a much younger age
and have grown with the club. That’s totally different.
#Post#: 146095--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: Quinky
Date: December 19, 2025, 10:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FishQuin link ---
>
> Most of the guys you’ve mentioned in the +30 category are
forwards, who do tend to peak later. It’s also fair to say that
for the most part (maybe unanimously) they were playing better
when they were 29/30 than they are now. Also, wings and
fullbacks tend to peak earliest. Yes, you get the likes of a
Daly or a Le Roux who have a late bloom, but I’m not sure
they’re any better now than they were at 28/29 and I think they
are more the exception than the rule.
>
> Mike Brown probably peaked just before the 2015 World Cup… he
would have been about 29 and in my opinion was the best 15 in
the world at the time. He got his last England cap when he was
32. It was a pretty rapid decline. Kolbe has nowhere near the
impact now that he had around the 2019 World Cup. Penaud is
(arguably) no longer the premier wing in France, with that young
lad Bielle-Biarrey passing him.
>
> I’m not saying players are no good after 30. But more often
than not they’re on the decline. Quins are going to pay Furbank
as a player at the peak of his powers but he’ll probably only be
at that level for 1 season at most. Every year after that is
likely to be a drop off. Or worse yet, with his recent injury
history, he might already be on that decline.
>
> As for comparing against the Quins guys. Petti is a good
player and in a position we are catastrophically weak in. I’m
not a big fan of his age profile but I can get on board with it
because of how desperate we were for 2nd row reinforcements. We
don’t have that issue at 15, where we are well enough stocked.
Northmore, Dombrandt and Evans were all brought in at a much
younger age and have grown with the club. That’s totally
different.
>
--- End Quote ---
It could also be said that Northmore and Dombrandt were late
developers, hence not coming through the usual academy route.
#Post#: 146098--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: December 19, 2025, 11:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FishQuin link ---
>
> Most of the guys you’ve mentioned in the +30 category are
forwards, who do tend to peak later. It’s also fair to say that
for the most part (maybe unanimously) they were playing better
when they were 29/30 than they are now. Also, wings and
fullbacks tend to peak earliest. Yes, you get the likes of a
Daly or a Le Roux who have a late bloom, but I’m not sure
they’re any better now than they were at 28/29 and I think they
are more the exception than the rule.
>
> Mike Brown probably peaked just before the 2015 World Cup… he
would have been about 29 and in my opinion was the best 15 in
the world at the time. He got his last England cap when he was
32. It was a pretty rapid decline. Kolbe has nowhere near the
impact now that he had around the 2019 World Cup. Penaud is
(arguably) no longer the premier wing in France, with that young
lad Bielle-Biarrey passing him.
>
> I’m not saying players are no good after 30. But more often
than not they’re on the decline. Quins are going to pay Furbank
as a player at the peak of his powers but he’ll probably only be
at that level for 1 season at most. Every year after that is
likely to be a drop off. Or worse yet, with his recent injury
history, he might already be on that decline.
>
> As for comparing against the Quins guys. Petti is a good
player and in a position we are catastrophically weak in. I’m
not a big fan of his age profile but I can get on board with it
because of how desperate we were for 2nd row reinforcements. We
don’t have that issue at 15, where we are well enough stocked.
Northmore, Dombrandt and Evans were all brought in at a much
younger age and have grown with the club. That’s totally
different.
>
--- End Quote ---
C'mon now. Penaud scored 27 tries in 26 matches last season and
has 6 already in this. He's still one of the best wings in the
world even if Bielle-Biarrey is outshining him. Kolbe is still a
regular for South Africa and scoring cracking tries, and I also
mentioned two scrum halfs and Jessie Kriel but let me add in
Andre Esterhuizen (31) who you'd probably hate to see back at
Quins(!) and Damian de Allende (34).
Ireland, still one of the best teams in the world, have only 4
backs in their entire squad who are younger than Furbank.
Scotland have Kinghorn (28), DvdM (30), Steyn (31), Rowe (27),
Graham (28), Tuipulotu (28), Hutchinson (29), Russell(33),
Hastings (29).
The Kiwis are very young at the moment and it shows, but their
2011 world cup winning team that dominated rugby for a while had
Muliaina (31), Jane (28), Conrad Smith (29), Nonu (29) and their
2015 side had Carter (33 at the time), SBW (30), Ben Smith (29),
Nonu (then 33), Conrad Smith (then 33), etc etc
The point is that there are countless examples of players at or
near their peak, guys who are extremely successful and playing
some of their best rugby, well past 30. Being 29 is not old in
rugby terms and there are lots and lots of outside backs who
maintain standards or even improve after 30.
We have a team lacking leadership and with a lot of pretty
inexperienced players, and Furbank is a leader who ticks a lot
of boxes. He's also a seriously high quality operator who until
the recent injury was in the (extended) form of his playing
career, and still under 30. He has only just come into his
prime, his development has accelerated in the last 2 years.
#Post#: 146100--------------------------------------------------
Re: Furbank...
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: December 19, 2025, 12:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
People still tend to say that props are young at 28 and backs
are past it at 30. Things have changed massively in terms of how
players look after themselves. As top end pace finishes, players
add other aspects to their game to compensate
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