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#Post#: 144701--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 13, 2025, 6:59 am
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--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Thinking outside the blue sky envelope, why do we feel the
need to try and control everything? I've said it before and I
still believe that if you just let market forces rule it will
eventually settle into a scenario that is more acceptable. It’s
no good having a world beating team stuffed with Stars as
boredom would set in pretty quickly.
>
> And another thing. Why are the Coaches and players not
Contracted on a much more results and productivity based system.
Yes, pay them a livable basic salary but make the rewards for
reaching appropriate goals so good that there would be no doubt
over where the effort and loyalties lie.
>
--- End Quote ---
You are Nigel Wray and I claim my £5
Actually, make it a house
#Post#: 144702--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 13, 2025, 7:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Thinking outside the blue sky envelope, why do we feel the
need to try and control everything? I've said it before and I
still believe that if you just let market forces rule it will
eventually settle into a scenario that is more acceptable. Its
no good having a world beating team stuffed with Stars as
boredom would set in pretty quickly.
>
> And another thing. Why are the Coaches and players not
Contracted on a much more results and productivity based system.
Yes, pay them a livable basic salary but make the rewards for
reaching appropriate goals so good that there would be no doubt
over where the effort and loyalties lie.
>
--- End Quote ---
It doesn't work, though. If you take a laissez faire approach,
it basically creates a Prisoner's Dilemma situation. If everyone
plays fair, everyone gets the best outcome, but if anyone tries
to get an unfair advantage everyone is worse off, but those who
don't cheat come off worst of all. Those with the deepest
pockets survive, but end up with massive debts.
So in a lot of leagues, owners agree to rules that keep the
league competitive without spiralling costs.
I'm sure coaches have performance related elements to their pay,
but they get paid big basic salaries because of the experience
and success they've had in the past. And unless it's the only
one available, why would you accept a deal like that? You have
to be very confident in your ability to ride out the things
beyond your control (injuries, referees, other sides, other
sides cheating, international call ups, players being
poached...) to accept a deal that pays a pittance on the promise
of upside if you win.
That goes even more so for players. They risk permanent injury
week in week out, and performance depends on the players around
them as much as themselves. How many players would do that for a
living wage?
That said, in the women's game only a handful of players in any
given squad are paid enough to be full time professionals - the
others are playing for the aspiration of making it to that
level, or the hope that the game grows fast enough that they
will be properly paid in a couple of years' time.
#Post#: 144703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: November 13, 2025, 7:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
>
HTML https://cei.org/blog/philosophers-corner-voluntary-socialism/#:~:text=Blog,250)
>
>
HTML https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/laissezfaire.asp
>
> Sort of the extreme ends of the “free market economy”
voluntary socialism can be considered a form of anarchy or
Marxist philosophy applied to a form of free market economy.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
What?
#Post#: 144704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 13, 2025, 7:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Thinking outside the blue sky envelope, why do we feel the
need to try and control everything? I've said it before and I
still believe that if you just let market forces rule it will
eventually settle into a scenario that is more acceptable. Its
no good having a world beating team stuffed with Stars as
boredom would set in pretty quickly.
>
> And another thing. Why are the Coaches and players not
Contracted on a much more results and productivity based system.
Yes, pay them a livable basic salary but make the rewards for
reaching appropriate goals so good that there would be no doubt
over where the effort and loyalties lie.
>
--- End Quote ---
As a more serious answer, I'd compare the current Prem with the
French football league. Famously, the Prem has had 6 different
winners in 6 years (i.e. since Sarries' financial doping was
officially recognised). However, what's less reported is that
there have also been 6 different losing finalists.
In Ligue1, since 2012/13 (i.e. 13 seasons) PSG have won 11
titles including 4 domestic trebles and a further 2 domestic
doubles. In the two seasons they didn't win, they
(unsurprisingly) came second and in total over that 13-year
span, in every season second place was either PSG, Lyon,
Marseille or Monaco - except for one year when PSG won and
Marseille were third.
In an 18-club league, fans of 14 clubs are basically hoping for
a miracle to even make the top 3.
To your second point, I would have thought coaches are
compensated based on performance - at least in part.
#Post#: 144705--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: November 13, 2025, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> You are Nigel Wray and I claim my £5
>
>
>
> Actually, make it a house
>
--- End Quote ---
There are no free market economies anywhere in the world, there
are mixed economies with some government regulation, a
unregulated market economy would be horrific with nothing to
stop pollution no safety laws and nothing to stop cartels, or
any form of employment law.
#Post#: 144706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 13, 2025, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> It doesn't work, though. If you take a laissez faire approach,
it basically creates a Prisoner's Dilemma situation. If everyone
plays fair, everyone gets the best outcome, but if anyone tries
to get an unfair advantage everyone is worse off, but those who
don't cheat come off worst of all. Those with the deepest
pockets survive, but end up with massive debts.
>
> So in a lot of leagues, owners agree to rules that keep the
league competitive without spiralling costs.
>
> I'm sure coaches have performance related elements to their
pay, but they get paid big basic salaries because of the
experience and success they've had in the past. And unless it's
the only one available, why would you accept a deal like that?
You have to be very confident in your ability to ride out the
things beyond your control (injuries, referees, other sides,
other sides cheating, international call ups, players being
poached...) to accept a deal that pays a pittance on the promise
of upside if you win.
>
> That goes even more so for players. They risk permanent injury
week in week out, and performance depends on the players around
them as much as themselves. How many players would do that for a
living wage?
>
> That said, in the women's game only a handful of players in
any given squad are paid enough to be full time professionals -
the others are playing for the aspiration of making it to that
level, or the hope that the game grows fast enough that they
will be properly paid in a couple of years' time.
>
--- End Quote ---
Exactly this. I'm reminded of a season 6 (?) years ago. In the
penultimate game, we were drawing (I want to say away at Irish)
and the clock was in the red when Faf bounced a penalty off the
post. The game therefore finished all square. We finished that
season in 7th but with 4-7 all on the same points.
If I was a coach paid based on finishing top 4 I'd've been
pretty gutted that I arguably missed out by the width of a post
#Post#: 144707--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 13, 2025, 7:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Exactly this. I'm reminded of a season 6 (?) years ago. In the
penultimate game, we were drawing (I want to say away at Irish)
and the clock was in the red when Faf bounced a penalty off the
post. The game therefore finished all square. We finished that
season in 7th but with 4-7 all on the same points.
>
> If I was a coach paid based on finishing top 4 I'd've been
pretty gutted that I arguably missed out by the width of a post
>
--- End Quote ---
Well quite. And Quins' relegation story was much the same - it
ultimately came down to one missed kick.
#Post#: 144708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: November 13, 2025, 7:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> What?
>
--- End Quote ---
if you choose to buy free trade or cruelty free products, you
are supporting a modern version of voluntary socialism, the
original philosophy was about worker controlled factories and
the workers choosing to pay more for the products from these
factories, than from satanic mills or factories run by
capitalist owners.
#Post#: 144709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: November 13, 2025, 8:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ignore Brown Bottle. He is being deliberately obtuse.
#Post#: 144710--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premiership's solution to growing financial crisis
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: November 13, 2025, 8:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Well quite. And Quins' relegation story was much the same - it
ultimately came down to one missed kick.
>
--- End Quote ---
...or a very ordinary season.....
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