DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 143804--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: October 19, 2025, 1:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> You keep saying that. It's not correct.
>
--- End Quote ---
Don't get this argument at all. Imagine going to the bank for a
£60m loan and telling them you'll break even in year 6. You'd
get laughed out of the manager's office. Professionalism doesn't
care about gender - no gender has a right to professionalism. If
it makes money it should be professional, if it doesn't
(especially if it loses vast sums) it shouldn't. Women's rugby
might be growing at a fast rate but that's largely down to the
huge spending on it and still, growth doesn't mean profit.
The poster said that if it does not make money it should not be
professional, the last published accounts showed every club
losing money.
I don’t agree with the statement but it is being used to prop up
the posters reasons to defund women’s rugby.
#Post#: 143807--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: October 19, 2025, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> You need to look at what you are saying, the RFU administers
English rugby which includes women’s rugby, most of rugby leaks
money outside at present the men’s England team, the women’s
team is predicted to make a profit by 2030.
> Again your above if taken literally means there should be no
professional men’s clubs as at present every prem club is in the
red.
> You can’t separate different strands of rugby schools,
grassroots and women’s and elite and pretend they don’t affect
each other and the men’s national team.
> Growing the women’s game will benefit every part of the game
and will be self financing, just saying that we should not
invest in it and instead pay the money to a player who obviously
values financial gain over playing for England seems morally
suspect.
> A final question why is it acceptable for men’s prem clubs to
run at a loss and not for the Women’s national team to run at a
loss for a few years, and the statement that professional rugby
is not for women, why?.
>
--- End Quote ---
Of course I can separate different strands of rugby when it
comes to professional and amateur. The amateur and grassroots
game doesn't affect pro rugby one bit.
How will growing women's rugby benefit 'every part' of the
game? How will it be 'self-financing'?! Just laughable
statements. It generates sod all income and claims it'll turn a
profit in just over 4 years' time?! You buy these statements
based on what evidence, exactly?!
I'm not suggesting more money should go to one player, or that
men's rugby can run at a loss and women's can't. (Apart from the
fact that men's international rugby makes millions). My point is
that women's rugby shouldn't be entirely paid for by men's
rugby, which has its own stresses already. If someone wants to
fully fund women's rugby separately then go at it, but they
don't. It just piggy backs off men's, to its detriment.
#Post#: 143809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: October 19, 2025, 2:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
>
> Of course I can separate different strands of rugby when it
comes to professional and amateur. The amateur and grassroots
game doesn't affect pro rugby one bit.
>
> How will growing women's rugby benefit 'every part' of the
game? How will it be 'self-financing'?! Just laughable
statements. It generates sod all income and claims it'll turn a
profit in just over 4 years' time?! You buy these statements
based on what evidence, exactly?!
>
> I'm not suggesting more money should go to one player, or that
men's rugby can run at a loss and women's can't. (Apart from the
fact that men's international rugby makes millions). My point is
that women's rugby shouldn't be entirely paid for by men's
rugby, which has its own stresses already. If someone wants to
fully fund women's rugby separately then go at it, but they
don't. It just piggy backs off men's, to its detriment.
>
--- End Quote ---
So international players aren’t influenced by their parents who
may have played at grassroots level, and none of them have ever
started playing at grassroots level club as children.
No one of course will ever have a female parent and if they have
an interest in rugby that would not bring more people into the
game.
In the end yes the professional men’s international game
finances the rest of the game, but the international men’s game
would not exist without the rest of the game.
The chicken and egg conundrum, which also requires chickens of
both genders.
But you seem to believe that the international game is
completely independent of the grassroots, schools, age level and
university systems, and that players appear by magic to join the
elite club’s academy systems.
#Post#: 143812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: October 19, 2025, 2:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The investments by the RFU into women’s rugby have at least
provided multiple trophies and championships including a couple
of World Cups and for a fraction of what the men’s squad
receives. Don’t say the England Women should be axed because
they don’t make money after they’ve won all there is to win.
#Post#: 143815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: October 19, 2025, 4:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
They've literally won all there is to win because England are
the only country who bakrolls their women' team. If there were
any money in women's rugby then there would be more competition.
They have about 10 times the funding of the Canadians they just
beat.
#Post#: 143816--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: October 19, 2025, 5:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Women’s rugby is not only funded by the RFU, but also by the
government and the national lottery, and commercial sponsorship,
so perhaps those wishing to defund it shouldn’t be making plans
to spend the windfall they believe this would bring.
This is the RFU blueprint for the next five years.
HTML https://rfu.widen.net/s/zqnlxwpd8g/women-and-girls-action-plan
Hard to disagree with what they want to achieve, for those that
do perhaps invent a Time Machine to go back to the Victorian
era.
#Post#: 143858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: October 20, 2025, 3:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> Women’s rugby is not only funded by the RFU, but also by the
government and the national lottery, and commercial sponsorship,
so perhaps those wishing to defund it shouldn’t be making plans
to spend the windfall they believe this would bring.
>
> This is the RFU blueprint for the next five years.
>
>
HTML https://rfu.widen.net/s/zqnlxwpd8g/women-and-girls-action-plan
>
> Hard to disagree with what they want to achieve, for those
that do perhaps invent a Time Machine to go back to the
Victorian era.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well there wouldn't be a windfall as such, but there would be
millions in unwasted cash available to put to good use, towards
the part of the business that generated that money.
The RFU's governance and decision making is seriously flawed. It
doesn't really matter what their 5 year plan is, they'll twist
it to make sure the arbitrary numbers are hit so big Bill can
have his performance bonuses. All the while, the women's team
will continue to drain financial resources while adding nothing
to the coffers.
I'd love the women's team to bring in loads of money like we're
constantly told it will, I'm just realistic about it. That's the
difference.
#Post#: 143859--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 20, 2025, 4:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's quite obviously a growth market and frankly I think you're
being extremely blinkered if you can't see that. A comparatively
small investment has an outsize impact. Christ, the increased
advertising opportunities alone are probably worth their weight
in gold. I don't think there's any part of the sport that would
provide the same returns for the same money currently.
Businesses - and the RFU - care about growth. The clubs care
about growth.
But then rugby doesn't exist to make money and I think people
are forgetting that.
#Post#: 143861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: FrostAndFire
Date: October 20, 2025, 4:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
>
>
> I'm not suggesting more money should go to one player, or that
men's rugby can run at a loss and women's can't. (Apart from the
fact that men's international rugby makes millions). My point is
that women's rugby shouldn't be entirely paid for by men's
rugby, which has its own stresses already. If someone wants to
fully fund women's rugby separately then go at it, but they
don't. It just piggy backs off men's, to its detriment.
>
--- End Quote ---
The men's game does run at a loss, though. The internationals do
not come close to funding the whole of the men's game. And you
can't treat internationals as something that stands alone. If it
wasn't for the weekly games with the money-losing clubs, there
would be no international players to make that occasional but
inadequate money.
#Post#: 143862--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tom Willis off to France again
DIR By: sussexquin
Date: October 20, 2025, 7:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The recently sold out RC Final and nearly sold out 6N v France
say the womens' game is gaining traction. Revenue from
merchandise and food/drinks is almost on a par with the mens
matches so the profits must be good. How long before all the
womens 6N matches are at HQ if profit is the sole aim? The mens
and womens games must be watched with an open mind, they are
played to the same rules but totally different games (if that
makes sense). The only proviso to growth is that games must be
competitive and that comes with investment and persevering with
tours (international) and not allowing uncontrolled investment
to 'buy' results (national).
*****************************************************
Page 5 of 9
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page