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#Post#: 143370--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: October 12, 2025, 2:30 pm
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--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> Saracens have a centre crisis similar to ours, will be
interesting what they do when they get some of them back, will
Farrell play 10 then or be on the bench.
>
--- End Quote ---
By all accounts he beefed up a bit in the expectation he'd be
mostly playing 12
#Post#: 143371--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 12, 2025, 4:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If anyone wants to see some photos from the game, RugbyPass
appear to have dumped a whole SD card’s worth into their
article:
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/news/marcus-smith-inspires-harlequins-to-first-gallagher-prem-win-against-saracens/
#Post#: 143378--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: October 13, 2025, 2:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
After such a disappointment last week, what a relief and joy to
get a win yesterday in #derbyday #hypehypehype. The kicking game
was interesting, rarely have I seen a Sarries side deal so badly
with it and us execute it fairly well. CCS was a physical
machine at 8, I doubt Tom Willis will have had such an
unpleasant afternoon in a while. Petti was a menace and the
flankers were their usual selves. Marcus was as 'in control' as
I can remember him being. Nothing over the top or silly, all
very smartly played. Benson really stood up too, he's a proper
'competitor'. Having an actual bench made up of primarily
experienced players made a massive difference although Townsend
gave me a bit of a heart attack with that intercepted pass on
the late blind side move. Wenger and Delgado as solid a back up
pair as we can hope for I feel. After all that went before -
hugely satisfactory. Now to back it up with a performance at
Exeter.
Sooo... the line out was a bit creaky yesterday, and the driving
maul wasn't as effective as you'd hope with all the
opportunities we had. The impact of the bench also showed what
we knew before... some of the guys we've had over the last few
weeks aren't nearly up to it. But.... things do look brighter.
On a side note. A lot has been said about Farrell and all the
'hate' he gets, people say it's jealousy, Sarries bias etc but I
think that's nonsense. Post match, Jamie George did a lap of the
pitch and got a warm round of applause from all Sarries and
Quins fans alike near us. Been central to everything Sarries
have done on the pitch over the last decade - as much as Faz I'd
say. To a person, everyone we were with remarked how we all had
a lot of time and respect for him as a player. People 'enjoyed'
Faz's drop yesterday as there's a relentless narrative of
'standard driving' and extra percentages etc etc on an almost
knee jerk basis as soon as anything critical is raised. Faz
spent a lot of yesterday thinking he was captain when Sarries
already had 2 on the pitch... That's for me why I'm not as warm
to him. Contrast him and George and you have your answer.
#Post#: 143379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: October 13, 2025, 3:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, this is becoming a bit of a habit now, getting boring
really beating them. Maybe we can have them for Big Game again?
😁
Agree on the Jamie George point above A222, he also got warm
applause when walking past the West Stand during his warm up.
Have spoken to him a few times at games and he is just a
genuinely nice bloke who does his talking on the pitch
consistently. Other clubs fans appreciate that. It's the
Farrell's & Earl's with their histrionics that frustrate oppo
fans. Other than the RWC semi final against South Africa in
2023, I can't remember an outstanding Farrell performance for
England so the clamber to get him back involved is ridiculous.
He may well understand what leadership is but he has the air of
"my way or the highway" about him. England's greatest captain
still listened to the experience around him and he showed up
time and again.
The earlier points above about is he a 10 or 12. For me, he's
neither. He wants to run the show of being a 10 but wants to be
the defensive captain as well. You might as well play an extra
forward at 10 if he plays 12 as he's dropping back to (drop
🤣) receive kicks and Burke was just standing in the line
waiting to have the ball passed to him. He throws out the system
and just has to be the 'boss'. Will be interesting to see the
dynamic on field when Itoje is back out there, trying to stamp
his authority with an agitator in the background
#Post#: 143380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: FrostAndFire
Date: October 13, 2025, 4:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think there's a lot of things that turn people off Farrell.
Some of it's his personality on the field. Some of it is about
class and being a northerner. Part of it's because he's not a
flashy, exciting player but has an enormous number of caps.
#Post#: 143381--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 13, 2025, 4:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Interesting little linguistic shift in Gilmore's press
conference:
--- Quote ---
> "Marcus is a Lion. His job in our team is to give us game
management and to put us into good field positions.
>
> "We've probably struggled with that in the last two weeks,
which cost us both of those games."
--- End Quote ---
Previously they've spoken about Marcus managing the space and DC
managing the game, and it's something that's been levelled at
Marcus as a criticism when in consideration for England (just a
couple of days ago someone on RugbyPass was opining that Marcus
couldn't manage a game). It looks as if Gilmore and Smith may
have decided they're going to emphasise that he can run the
whole show.
#Post#: 143382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: Yareet
Date: October 13, 2025, 4:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> Well, this is becoming a bit of a habit now, getting boring
really beating them. Maybe we can have them for Big Game again?
😁
>
> Agree on the Jamie George point above A222, he also got warm
applause when walking past the West Stand during his warm up.
Have spoken to him a few times at games and he is just a
genuinely nice bloke who does his talking on the pitch
consistently. Other clubs fans appreciate that. It's the
Farrell's & Earl's with their histrionics that frustrate oppo
fans. Other than the RWC semi final against South Africa in
2023, I can't remember an outstanding Farrell performance for
England so the clamber to get him back involved is ridiculous.
He may well understand what leadership is but he has the air of
"my way or the highway" about him. England's greatest captain
still listened to the experience around him and he showed up
time and again.
>
> The earlier points above about is he a 10 or 12. For me, he's
neither. He wants to run the show of being a 10 but wants to be
the defensive captain as well. You might as well play an extra
forward at 10 if he plays 12 as he's dropping back to (drop
🤣) receive kicks and Burke was just standing in the line
waiting to have the ball passed to him. He throws out the system
and just has to be the 'boss'. Will be interesting to see the
dynamic on field when Itoje is back out there, trying to stamp
his authority with an agitator in the background
>
--- End Quote ---
This won't go down well here but I'd argue that there is nothing
Earl does in terms of "histrionics" that WEv doesn't also do
similar. If memory serves, both were highlighted by the TV
commentators for their (expected) celebrations.
When he's your player, it's passion and "one of us".
#Post#: 143383--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 13, 2025, 4:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> I think there's a lot of things that turn people off Farrell.
Some of it's his personality on the field. Some of it is about
class and being a northerner. Part of it's because he's not a
flashy, exciting player but has an enormous number of caps.
>
--- End Quote ---
Farrell is one of the least creative international fly halves
but he's arguably a better executor than even Wilkinson. The
difference is that while Wilkinson had Greenwood and Catt to
support the creativity, Farrell spent a lot of his time in
lineups like Youngs - Farrell - Barritt - Tuilagi, which could
be brutally effective but not terribly exciting to watch.
The best games with him in, to my mind, were often with Care at
9 or Ford at 10 and Farrell at 12. His contribution in the
latter has been underrated, I would say. He's defensively strong
enough to play 12 (even if his technique has flaws [1]), and the
Ford / Farrell combo was effective in letting Farrell manage the
back foot ball while waiting for something that Ford could run
with. He did seem to stifle Marcus in a similar role, but that
may have been more to do with none of the rest of the team
seeming to get what Eddie wanted.
I think there's also a difference between his public, pantomime
villain persona and how he's seen off the pitch. When players
and coaches talk about him, it's invariably in positive terms.
It's not that dissimilar to Mike Brown, when you stop to think
about it.
He is, though, very annoying when he's playing against you, as
is Earl (who seems a nice middle class kid off the pitch).
[1] Though flaws that other players get away with. The tackle
that ultimately got him a red card in 2023 was nearly identical
to and less egregious than the one that only earned Etzebeth a
yellow.
#Post#: 143384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: oakhaven
Date: October 13, 2025, 4:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> This won't go down well here but I'd argue that there is
nothing Earl does in terms of "histrionics" that WEv doesn't
also do similar. If memory serves, both were highlighted by the
TV commentators for their (expected) celebrations.
>
> When he's your player, it's passion and "one of us".
>
--- End Quote ---
FWIW I'd put Farrell and Earl in slightly different camps. Most
people's responses to Earl seem to fall into what you describe
above, similar to how Quins fans and non-Quins fans used to feel
about Mike Brown, in that he's generally well received when he
plays for England or if he's playing for a club you support, but
he has a way of rubbing people up the wrong way when he plays
against your team. And tbh if you're not hacking off the
opposition as a 7, you're probably not doing your job properly.
Whereas Farrell is unpopular in a slightly more universal way
that doesn't always make a massive amount of sense to me. It
seems to be a combination of factors, the sum of which don't
quite add up to the levels of dislike he receives across the
board from non-Saracens England fans.
#Post#: 143385--------------------------------------------------
Re: Team V Sarries
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: October 13, 2025, 4:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> I think there's a lot of things that turn people off Farrell.
Some of it's his personality on the field. Some of it is about
class and being a northerner. Part of it's because he's not a
flashy, exciting player but has an enormous number of caps.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think it is more about the media and how he has been built
into something way beyond his real ability, even more so since
leaving Racing 92, he was a very good player, but not a legend,
on a personnal level
I also think some of it, is also around the dislike of Saracens
and how he is the poster boy of them, so takes the cheers of
their fans and the jeers of others, on a club level.
Playing outside centre and lacking the pace or power to stress
top level teams, and seeming to hold back other players, on an
international level.
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