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       #Post#: 142905--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: Rugbycat
       Date: October 3, 2025, 6:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The only person who can tell you why he left is him, and if the
       whole story is being told in the interview.
       People often leave jobs because the grass is greener they
       believe somewhere else and sometimes they can’t really explain
       why they think that, sometimes they can, sometimes it those
       expectations are realistic sometimes not.
       He seems to have made up his mind that he wanted out and that
       was that, there was no negotiation that was going to change his
       mind.
       Seems the only big lesson from this is around communication and
       understanding people’s ambitions, and sometimes even with the
       best communication those ambitions may not be realistic for the
       club.
       #Post#: 142907--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: FrostAndFire
       Date: October 3, 2025, 6:12 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
       >
       > The only person who can tell you why he left is him, and if
       the whole story is being told in the interview.
       > People often leave jobs because the grass is greener they
       believe somewhere else and sometimes they can’t really explain
       why they think that, sometimes they can, sometimes it those
       expectations are realistic sometimes not.
       > He seems to have made up his mind that he wanted out and that
       was that, there was no negotiation that was going to change his
       mind.
       > Seems the only big lesson from this is around communication
       and understanding people’s ambitions, and sometimes even with
       the best communication those ambitions may not be realistic for
       the club.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       There's nothing wrong with a player leaving a club if their
       vision and the club's vision for them don't match up. Sometimes
       it works brilliantly, sometimes it's a disaster and their
       progress stalls. It's a shame to lose him, but we're okay at
       hooker.
       #Post#: 142910--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: Yareet
       Date: October 3, 2025, 6:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: poorfour link ---
       >
       > It's instructive to compare Jibs's path to Baxter's. Fin got
       an early chance through injuries (and was already on the England
       radar even then), but Quins managed his game time and when he
       was ready he overtook Marler (who even at the end of his career
       was a better player in his position than any of our hookers).
       >
       > I imagine they had something similar planned with Jibs -
       though I think a problem he may have perceived was having 3
       other youngish hookers ahead of him who had (unusually for
       Quins) mostly managed to stay fit and in reasonable form. That's
       actually a positive for the club - we've definitely had track
       record of playing hookers too much too soon and breaking them,
       so managing their game time is a good thing. What they appear to
       have failed to do was to get that message across to him - at
       least not before Sale turned his head.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Comparing with Baxter is interesting. As far as I can see,
       Baxter played u20s in 2021/22. The following season he started
       15 games for Quins. Jibs played U20s in 2023. The following
       season he started 1 game for Quins.
       At the very least there seems to be a disconnect between what
       Quins were planning and what Jibs expected.
       #Post#: 142913--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: Rugbycat
       Date: October 3, 2025, 6:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
       >
       > There's nothing wrong with a player leaving a club if their
       vision and the club's vision for them don't match up. Sometimes
       it works brilliantly, sometimes it's a disaster and their
       progress stalls. It's a shame to lose him, but we're okay at
       hooker.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Totally agree,I think that sometimes both sides are too far
       apart to ever agree, and people read a lot in to something that
       is what it is.
       And the fact that we are ok at hooker was probably the main
       thing going around his head.
       #Post#: 142914--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: October 3, 2025, 6:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Yareet link ---
       >
       > Comparing with Baxter is interesting. As far as I can see,
       Baxter played u20s in 2021/22. The following season he started
       15 games for Quins. Jibs played U20s in 2023. The following
       season he started 1 game for Quins.
       >
       > At the very least there seems to be a disconnect between what
       Quins were planning and what Jibs expected.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Wasn't he injured for part of the season?
       #Post#: 142920--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: FrostAndFire
       Date: October 3, 2025, 6:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Yareet link ---
       >
       > Comparing with Baxter is interesting. As far as I can see,
       Baxter played u20s in 2021/22. The following season he started
       15 games for Quins. Jibs played U20s in 2023. The following
       season he started 1 game for Quins.
       >
       > At the very least there seems to be a disconnect between what
       Quins were planning and what Jibs expected.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Baxter, however, is exceptional, better in his position than
       Jibulu is in his, and I think he was still thrown in faster and
       deeper than Quins had planned.
       #Post#: 142922--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: Rugbycat
       Date: October 3, 2025, 6:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
       >
       > Baxter, however, is exceptional, better in his position than
       Jibulu is in his, and I think he was still thrown in faster and
       deeper than Quins had planned.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I also think Jibulu may find Kepulei Tuipulotu in the way of his
       England expectations.
       #Post#: 142924--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: October 3, 2025, 7:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
       >
       > Baxter, however, is exceptional, better in his position than
       Jibulu is in his, and I think he was still thrown in faster and
       deeper than Quins had planned.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       He's a year older than Jibs and started getting regular gametime
       3 seasons ago but was only starting regularly because of an
       injury crisis (and Marler being away with England); he then went
       back to being a bench option for a season and a half and it was
       only last season he was clearly first choice.
       From memory (and looking at wikipedia), Jibs was starting to get
       similar amounts of gametime from the bench two seasons ago - so
       was on a similar track - but that then dried up once he made his
       intention to leave clear. So they weren't being treated that
       differently given their respective ages.
       And as you say, Baxter had been training with the main England
       squad since he was still a teenager and has now established
       himself very clearly as one of the senior props and probably
       second only to Genge after the summer.
       #Post#: 142925--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: October 3, 2025, 7:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
       >
       > Echoes of Gabriel Ibitoye to my mind.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Nah. Gabs was a bit of liability. Huge talent, huge weaknesses.
       Jibulu is extremely good with no obvious weaknesses bar lack of
       experience.
       #Post#: 142926--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jibulu interview - tough reading!
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: October 3, 2025, 7:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
       >
       > The main thing I can't get over is how we've looked at his
       performances and decided he wasn't worth keeping. Riley has
       regressed to the point hes now third choice anyway yet extended
       his contract. I think most here would have had Jibulu as first
       choice (well I would for this season as we need more dynamism)
       with Walker as back up, and then someone like Musk/Head as a
       third wheel. Financially it wouldn't have been more I imagine
       than signing Turner and renewing Riley.
       >
       > Looking at our senior academy players and potential players to
       break in to the 23 in the way Jibulu did, I don't think this
       season there will be many, if any with the possible exception of
       Friday when fit. Carr/Schmid are good but back row isn't an area
       of weakness for us. Ideally for a bench role it would be Slevin
       or Kolade but I'm not convinced either are ready.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You've not really followed any of this. Jibulu didn't leave
       because he was considered not worth keeping, he left because
       Sale came in with a big offer at exactly the same time that
       Jibulu thought he should be starting games but was mostly
       getting (reasonably long) appearances off the bench. Quins were
       grooming him as a future first choice and doing what most teams
       do with an up-and-coming youngster, but he (rightly IMO)
       considered himself worthy of a proper shoot-out for the starting
       shirt.
       There would have been very few people on here at the beginning
       of last season who would have had Jibulu as first choice. This
       season, sure. But we're talking about an event that happened
       very early on last season. He'd had 140 minutes of senior Quins
       rugby the season before. Hindsight is one thing but you're
       making things up again.
       And if you're looking for players breaking into the squad like
       Jibulu did... well, Green is already doing that, so is Hobson,
       Kerr is 2 years younger, Cleaves is the same age, Waghorn is a
       year younger. It's not like we don't have academy players coming
       through like he did. It's just that Quins misjudged his
       ambition, got their timing wrong, and probably didn't put enough
       value on making sure he was 100% committed to his future here.
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