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#Post#: 142014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: Yareet
Date: September 12, 2025, 6:11 am
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--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> Wilson has not really achieved any consistent success as a
coach since leaving Cardiff, judged on Glasgow and here, he is a
poor coach1, one off success is not a sensible measure to judge
by2 and the fact that they were early on as head coach3, would
indicate that the team declined over his tenure.
> Nick Evan’s was wanted by the RFU after he helped out with
England coaching so that would suggest he is more than
competent4, also the head coach will decide the strategy to
employ and the assistant coaches have to follow that to a large
degree.5
> We have lost key players in the front row and at 12, and did
not replace them6, again that reflects badly on Wilson.
> The club held on to Nick Evan’s when he was wanted by England,
but held the door open for Wilson.7
> Looked at in the round Wilson is not an effective coach, and
created an environment of failure, And frankly spoke nonsense
around plans and learnings, none of which came to fruition.
> The simple question around him is did he improve the team,
also we are a bit like Buzz lightyear if we fall we want to do
it in style, so I can live we losing but if we do let’s play
attractive attacking rugby, and allow our best players the
freedom to express themselves.8
> I would let Nick Evan’s have the season if he wants the job
and see where we go.
>
--- End Quote ---
1.
Evans, that makes him “more than competent”.
2.
result. I specifically said that the league position at the end
of the season is what counts
3.
4.
5.
are so unwilling to stand up to coaches like Wilson. They even
seem happy to carry on working with them.
6.
want to come to Quins? Could Quins afford them? For example, you
replaced Collier with a Test veteran who has bags of Prem
experience. On paper, that should work.
7.
8.
haven’t won silverware since. Even in 2021, my perception is
that you were leaking tries. If the Head Coach’s job is to win,
it’s not unreasonable to try a different approach. BTW, we’ve
gone the other way; tried to win by being defensively very sound
but now layering on more attack.
Other than that I agree with almost everything you say 😏
#Post#: 142015--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 12, 2025, 6:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> But I'll counter that with the 36-3 drubbing you dealt us at
the Stoop in 2023 (under Wilson). That season, we went on to
finish 3rd and I don't remember many people in the June saying
how disappointing it was that Quins thrashed us. They did in the
November when it happened but not once the season could be
looked at in the round.
>
> My point being individual games are seen in the context of the
season as a whole. As fans we tend to pick out the narrative
based on how successful we perceived the season in total. So
saying it's not about where you finish is (to my mind)
fallacious.
>
> Had Quins played exactly the same way last season, it is
perfectly possible that you could have finished Top 4. We beat
you by a point at our gaff. That win plus one other (and I seem
to remember there were a couple of close games) would've put you
up there.
>
> And this summer would've been all about how you did the double
over Saracens. And if Wilson is taking the hits for the Sale
game, he also has to take the plaudits for that achievement.
>
> If the criticism of Wilson is also (not from you, I
appreciate) that the number of tries scored has dropped, it
would seem an odd choice to promote your attack coach. One could
use those stats to argue that his star is on the wane.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, Sale game is just an example. You want "the season as a
whole" - we blew a bunch of games early on we should have won,
then in the second half started getting absolutely hockeyed.
Last season saw these:
24-48 (Bristol)
14-0 (Gloucs)
47-28 (Bath)
62-0 (Leinster)
29-43 (Sale)
40-7 (Tigers)
52-26 (Bristol)
with most of them from the end of March onwards.
In a season with only 23 senior matches, nearly a 3rd of them
being heavily damaging defeats (with 4 other defeats and a
frustrating draw) is absolutely awful. Zero consistency, the
occasional good win (both Saracens matches, Glaws at home,
Glasgow at home, Stormers at home) completely overshone by a
much larger number of very bad losses and frustrating near
misses. If we'd won those near misses then yes, we'd have made
top 4. But we didn't, and we lost them in a manner that was
extremely annoying. We had chances in the first half of the
season that we didn't take, and we cratered after that.
By the end we were struggling to put Exeter away at the Stoop
and were easy picking for any good side.
I appreciate you like to put things into perspective but I think
you're actually being quite blinkered for once!
#Post#: 142016--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: September 12, 2025, 6:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> 1.
about Evans, that makes him “more than competent”.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not like you to be disingenuous. Do you honestly think that
being called up for England is the same level as being made
defence coach of bankrupt Wales, a side that has won 2 matches
in the 19 since the 2023 world cup?
#Post#: 142018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: September 12, 2025, 7:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> 1.
about Evans, that makes him “more than competent”.
> 2.
Sale result. I specifically said that the league position at the
end of the season is what counts
> 3.
> 4.
> 5.
Bomb are so unwilling to stand up to coaches like Wilson. They
even seem happy to carry on working with them.
> 6.
want to come to Quins? Could Quins afford them? For example, you
replaced Collier with a Test veteran who has bags of Prem
experience. On paper, that should work.
> 7.
> 8.
haven’t won silverware since. Even in 2021, my perception is
that you were leaking tries. If the Head Coach’s job is to win,
it’s not unreasonable to try a different approach. BTW, we’ve
gone the other way; tried to win by being defensively very sound
but now layering on more attack.
>
> Other than that I agree with almost everything you say
😏
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you really think that Wales and England are comparable, or is
that just a provocative comment.
Much of the rest of your comments are you disagreeing with my
opinion which is fine, but are also just your opinion, which you
appear to believe is indisputable, from your tone.
Who knows what was said between the coaches and who agreed or
disagreed, and again purely your speculation, by the way never
join the military.
My post really comes down to, his playing style was boring, our
recruitment was poor, and he as head coach, holds
responsibility.
Very content with you not agreeing with me, and would indeed be
concerned if you did.
#Post#: 142019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: poorfour
Date: September 12, 2025, 7:13 am
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--- Quote from: FatQuin link ---
>
> This report nails it for me. Wilson is no loss but the way
it’s happened is bad form. Good riddance.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's clickbait and speculation with no insight into the process
behind the scenes beyond what's in the press release. The only
clue that even hints as "bad form" is Laurie's comment that
things have progressed "quicker than expected" with Wales -
which is at least as likely to mean that the discussions have
been going on at least since the summer tour but that Wales have
pushed for an earlier release.
The club also says that they expect to make more announcements
"imminently", which is likely to mean that they are close to
announcing a replacement (though in a worst case scenario it
could mean that Bomb is also off...).
What we see through announcements is almost always the tip of
the iceberg in terms of the process and conversations that have
been followed. And part of the Millard / Sanger role is to plan
ahead around the coaching structure and know what the succession
plan is and what the club would do if one of the coaches were to
be unavailable for whatever reason.
I'd also observe that sudden departures of coaches at Quins has
historically been a harbinger of trophies.
#Post#: 142020--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: September 12, 2025, 7:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think Jones will probably be following fairly shortly. That
would be a bigger loss but not a disaster I don't think. Our
scrum hasn't been the weapon it was, though losing marler,
collier and louw in quick succession certainly doesn't help
#Post#: 142021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: September 12, 2025, 7:43 am
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I honestly think we need a fresh start in all areas.
Take nothing away from the coaching set up, they've done a good
job and no one will forget 2021. That said, under the same
coaches we've also had a string of very, very bad performances.
Last season we looked rudderless and I think if Nev got it many
are just hoping we can channel 2021 vibes again, but the counter
to that would be our attack has looked poor a while, and we have
lost our identity so a fresh reset maybe not the worst thing.
Maybe the squad has got too comfortable? It could account for
that 2-3% drop off and at this level that's the difference
between maintaining a lead and then letting it slip
#Post#: 142022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: Yareet
Date: September 12, 2025, 7:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> Do you really think that Wales and England are comparable, or
is that just a provocative comment.
>
> Much of the rest of your comments are you disagreeing with my
opinion which is fine, but are also just your opinion, which you
appear to believe is indisputable, from your tone.
>
> Who knows what was said between the coaches and who agreed or
disagreed, and again purely your speculation, by the way never
join the military.
>
> My post really comes down to, his playing style was boring,
our recruitment was poor, and he as head coach, holds
responsibility.
>
> Very content with you not agreeing with me, and would indeed
be concerned if you did.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
For clarity, no I don't think the equivalent jobs for Wales and
England are of comparable prestige but I also don't think that
there is a huge difference. IMO, Wales wouldn't take just
anyone.
Personally, I wouldn't have been surprised if Wales had gone for
Franco Smith instead of Tandy and would be less than shocked if
Bomb follows Wilson. Either would be significant hires.
Looked at another way, if Wilson is as terrible as you're making
out, he's very good at failing upwards ("failed" at Glasgow,
becomes (eventually) Head Coach at Quins. "Fails" at Quins,
becomes an Assistant at Wales - although I can appreciate that
not everyone on this board will see that as a promotion). I'd
say that also brings into question the judgement who hired him
into each of those roles.
And yes, these are my opinions. I aim to be respectful of the
fact that I'm the outsider on this board which is why I'm
careful to caveat anything I say on here with lines like "it
seems" or "I think". If it's demonstrably true, I'll usually
show my sources. Sorry if that comes across as an arrogant
belief in my own omniscience. That's the exact opposite of my
intention.
Which is why I try not to make emphatic statements about
subjects I'm unlikely to have first-hand knowledge of.
#Post#: 142023--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: September 12, 2025, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
>
> I think Jones will probably be following fairly shortly. That
would be a bigger loss but not a disaster I don't think. Our
scrum hasn't been the weapon it was, though losing marler,
collier and louw in quick succession certainly doesn't help
>
--- End Quote ---
...and Ferguson is in the building now - he did a great job with
Saints' scrum. As soon as I saw he'd joined us, it felt
inevitable that Bomb is already in the process of boxing up his
office... I'd put good money on it now.
#Post#: 142024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wilson to Wales
DIR By: Quinky
Date: September 12, 2025, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> I had it pre-saved and ready to go after the first game of the
season, but like a rule in MS Outlook
>
--- End Quote ---
Nah, you wouldn't have waited that long 😁
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