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#Post#: 141277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: Quinky
Date: August 14, 2025, 7:12 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Jillings resigned as Chairman because it happened on his
watch. I don’t remember any suggestion either at the time or
afterwards that either of them seriously considered selling
their ownership stakes. (Amongst other things, selling a club
with that level of debt usually means selling the shares for a
nominal sum in return for the new owner taking on the debt).
>
> And sitting on a piece of prime land without developing it for
25+ years is a pretty dumb strategy for a property developer.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's called land banking, and has made people a lot of money in
recent years.
#Post#: 141279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: Nico Wilson
Date: August 14, 2025, 8:50 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> But have you met all 4 of them?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, but a good friend has switched his allegiance from
Salarycens to Ealing.
#Post#: 141280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: poorfour
Date: August 14, 2025, 11:13 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> It's called land banking, and has made people a lot of money
in recent years.
>
--- End Quote ---
Land banking makes sense if you own low value land that is
expected to increase in value because of some extrinsic factor,
such as a new transport route or a new school or hospital in the
area. It doesn’t make sense to buy a piece of land that is
already in a high value area and then sit on it for 25 years
running a loss-making business.
Property in Twickenham has increased in value by 3.5x in the
past 25 years, but looking at the number of buildings you could
put on the site the upside would be barely enough to offset the
club’s losses. And while I know the ground is held separately
from the club, those losses still ultimately belong to the same
owners.
#Post#: 141281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: Quinky
Date: August 14, 2025, 11:21 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Land banking makes sense if you own low value land that is
expected to increase in value because of some extrinsic factor,
such as a new transport route or a new school or hospital in the
area. It doesn’t make sense to buy a piece of land that is
already in a high value area and then sit on it for 25 years
running a loss-making business.
>
> Property in Twickenham has increased in value by 3.5x in the
past 25 years, but looking at the number of buildings you could
put on the site the upside would be barely enough to offset the
club’s losses. And while I know the ground is held separately
from the club, those losses still ultimately belong to the same
owners.
>
--- End Quote ---
The more expensive the are, the more valuable the land. Value
will increase incrementally. People hold pockets if land for a
variety of reasons. Maybe they think they'll eventually get
planning permission. It could be for houses, flats... Or a whole
mini estate. Maybe they're holding out for adjoining land to be
available/purchased. The option to running a loss making
business on banked land is... Do nothing with it and have no
income whatsoever. Whereas losses can be useful for tax
purposes.
I don't know what the purchase price of the land was. I also
don't know the current market value. But I'd wager the profit
far outstrips any accumulated losses.
#Post#: 141283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: Yareet
Date: August 14, 2025, 11:40 am
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--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> Yes we have debt, but we can be a profitable club, very few
other clubs have that, looking into the figures 50% of the clubs
are unviable unless supported as a hobby by their owners.
>
> Covid hit everyone and has caused most of this debt, also our
debt compared to turnover is small, we own our ground, compare
that with Sale.
>
--- End Quote ---
FWIW and to add some colour to this, I think I'd rather have our
owners than any others in the league. They are genuine fans of
the club with no kids (they've frequently referred to the club
as their child) and recently sold another business allegedly for
£1bn.
They also came that bit later to the role so at least had an
idea what they were getting into. Simon's other hobby is race
car driving so he's clearly into rich boys' toys.
That said, the sooner we can own a stadium, the better. Perhaps
one upside of the sad state of affairs at Salford Red Devils is
that council may cut their losses on the SCS but I'm not holding
my breath.
We also tried a version of Big Game 15+ years ago at Bolton's
ground but it didn't really work. If we could do it properly, it
would be amazing.
#Post#: 141287--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: August 14, 2025, 2:34 pm
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They are responsible for the state of Thames water then. (Other
water companies exist) I’ll think of their “losses” every time
my season ticket and water bills increase.
#Post#: 141289--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: August 14, 2025, 3:31 pm
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> FWIW and to add some colour to this, I think I'd rather have
our owners than any others in the league. They are genuine fans
of the club with no kids (they've frequently referred to the
club as their child) and recently sold another business
allegedly for £1bn.
>
> They also came that bit later to the role so at least had an
idea what they were getting into. Simon's other hobby is race
car driving so he's clearly into rich boys' toys.
>
> That said, the sooner we can own a stadium, the better.
Perhaps one upside of the sad state of affairs at Salford Red
Devils is that council may cut their losses on the SCS but I'm
not holding my breath.
>
> We also tried a version of Big Game 15+ years ago at Bolton's
ground but it didn't really work. If we could do it properly, it
would be amazing.
>
--- End Quote ---
All I was pointing out is that if Sale was not owned by
extremely wealthy individuals it would not be a viable business,
it probably will never be a viable business, due to the lack of
interest in rugby union in an area with 6 rugby league teams in
close proximity, and very much in the cradle of league.
Which explains the present small crowds but you used to get more
in your previous homes
.
The stadium is not that bad but is not actually in Salford, but
a fair way away has awful road and transport links.
When you only have a turnover of £9m and spend £16m, it can only
be described as a vanity project for the owners that is fair
enough as it is their money and small beer for them.
But life is never certain I am sure that Chelsea fans never
thought that the previous owner would have to sell, would sale
find a buyer.
Rugby union has it heartlands and Sale unlike ourselves is not
in one, and the amount of spectators you get reflects that, have
nothing against sale but was just pointing out that we are in
fact viable from a business point of view and the history of
Harlequins and its image, is a very marketable commodity.
Our owners have not vastly overextended the club and have
managed it prudently, in a way we are the Spurs of Rugby to make
a football analogy.
As i say I am not running down Sale, but I feel confident that
there will still be a Harlequins long in the future.
#Post#: 141295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: August 15, 2025, 1:14 am
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Using a piece of prime West London realty as security against a
hundred other deals is not dumb.
#Post#: 141298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: never sleep
Date: August 15, 2025, 4:11 am
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--- Quote from: never sleep link ---
>
> I suspect that if they recruit a lot of players, that it will
take them a bit of time to settle in.
> They will probably set their target to be to avoid relegation
in the next season and then build over the next seasons.
>
> I could easily imagine that some of the non-playing areas
(i.e. not the players) need some substantial investment.
> E.g. do they have good training facilities? When about the
back-room staff - e.g. physios and s+c, etc?
> They will probably need to re-build all these parts if they
have been running on a shoe-string budget for some years.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
It looks like Steve Diamond is of the same thinking -
“You can’t just rush out and spend money. It never really works.
I think the infrastructure is really important, so is [investing
in] the stadium and training ground. [We need to also] get our
academy right, and make sure that’s producing kids of the right
quality from the local community.
“The process should happen over two to three years, very few
clubs have done it from year zero to year one.”
and
"salary cap and marquee players, are probably a year or two off
"
HTML https://premiershiprugby.com/content/diamond-urges-red-bull-to-build-newcastle-from-the-ground-upwards?utm_source=PRL&utm_campaign=Friday+Fix&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Newcastle+fans+IC
#Post#: 141301--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle Red Bull
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: August 15, 2025, 4:52 am
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--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> Using a piece of prime West London realty as security against
a hundred other deals is not dumb.
>
--- End Quote ---
You are better describing the people that the now owners bought
out after a phone call from Simon Halliday to Duncan Saville,
the club then did have unsustainable debt and if he had not
stepped in, I believe there would be no Harlequins.
Also remember we sold off a large amount of the ground that we
purchased for what is now the stoop, for very little in todays
terms.
The flats that are beside the stoop were a second pitch, which
we sold off, we could have a much larger capacity if this had
not been done.
The present owners have done a lot for Quins and as before the
previous owners much better describe your fears, and people can
have their own views on how they made wealth, but having watched
since my dad first took me at 5 years old, i am very glad the
phone call took place.
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