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#Post#: 140869--------------------------------------------------
Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Bod
Date: July 29, 2025, 2:07 pm
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HTML https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/tonights-rugby-news-bombshell-details-32153127?int_source=mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this
This'd shake things up eh?
"Plans for the proposed new rebel league R360 - which is being
driven by former England star Mike Tindall - are rapidly gaining
momentum, according to Mail Sport, and it is primed to begin in
just over a year.
The publication reports that Fenway Sports Group - who also own
the Boston Red Sox and other sports franchises as well as
Premier League champions Liverpool - are interested in becoming
franchise owners in the proposed league, as well as the Glazer
family, who own more than 70 per cent of United.
Red Bull are also interested in acquiring a franchise, with
league organisers now understood to have secured backing for the
proposed eight new men's teams, with each costing around £15
million.
With such huge external investment already secured, it is
believed that contracts worth up to around $1 million (£740,000)
per season are being offered to some of the game's biggest
stars."
Full article on link above
#Post#: 140870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: July 29, 2025, 3:24 pm
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personally I can't see it happening.
#Post#: 140871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Bod
Date: July 29, 2025, 4:22 pm
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I can see it happening
These big organisations will build in a 3 year " external
project development budget" at £15 million/year (they pay that
much wages for a mid value football player) and write it off
against tax after 3 years if it goes wrong.
We're 6 years out from a RWC in USA where sport promotions and
screwing a dollar from this event will be forefront.
I think it's a great opportunity for everyone to make a few
shillings, let those most enlightened take the risks and turn
the cash.
Prem Rugby is patently incapable of doing this, even in their
closed shop safe space
#Post#: 140875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: July 29, 2025, 8:42 pm
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So some players would be taking a pay cut, before you even
consider them losing their international payments.
#Post#: 140876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: FatQuin
Date: July 30, 2025, 1:59 am
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Are you saying this is also a 3 year plan Bod?
#Post#: 140877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Bod
Date: July 30, 2025, 2:58 am
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I think all I'm saying is that there are some external investors
with established success in sports promotion, who might use
similar financial and marketing disciplines to apply to Rugby
Union.
If you compare and contrast their historical outcomes with that
of the RFU they have a markedly better track record.
That's my musing, especially with the lucrative US market
looming in 6 years, along with all associated cash flows such as
merchandise and gambling revenues.
Add in the WRWC in US at the same time and there seems to be
some interesting oportunities for those who know their market
#Post#: 140880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: July 30, 2025, 4:14 am
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--- Quote from: Bod link ---
>
> I think all I'm saying is that there are some external
investors with established success in sports promotion, who
might use similar financial and marketing disciplines to apply
to Rugby Union.
> If you compare and contrast their historical outcomes with
that of the RFU they have a markedly better track record.
> That's my musing, especially with the lucrative US market
looming in 6 years, along with all associated cash flows such as
merchandise and gambling revenues.
> Add in the WRWC in US at the same time and there seems to be
some interesting oportunities for those who know their market
>
--- End Quote ---
If you look into in detail, some people have expressed an
interest, it clashes with the W6N, and the rugby championship.
It is very close in model to the Sevens model that lost £30m a
year, so you go to locations and three men and their dog turn
up, has no fan base for the made up teams.
Will be samctioned by world rugby, will be a has been league
with players at the end of their playing days, and needs a big
tv deal to survive, and not just in the US.
Ask Man utd fans about their owners and the answer would not be
in the glowing terms you are using.
#Post#: 140884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Fearless Fred
Date: July 30, 2025, 5:04 am
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The model proposed has a number of gaping flaws in my view:
They plan to have franchises based in London, Tokyo, Dubai, Cape
Town, Boston and Miami, as well as two other venues that are yet
to be decided. While London & Cape Town may be able to tap into
existing Rugby fanbases (and I have doubts about that as I
detail below) the others have very limited existing Rugby
fanbases, so crowds will be limited. That means they'll be
reliant on TV revenues as their major income stream. It's hard
enough to get TV companies to invest in the existing
competitions. No-one's going to take a punt on an unproved
competition in any big way.
You'll also need to find facilities in each of the locations not
just for playing but for teams to train. The plan I read was for
it to be similar to the sevens where everyone plays in one
location, and move around in a travelling circus. You might get
away with it in sevens, but when you're talking squads of 30+
players, coaches, fitness & conditioning, and ancillary staff,
you'll need a lot more than just a local gym that you can take
over for a couple of days.
As crowds will not look great on screen, the league will need to
draw form the biggest names currently playing. I can't see
systems like Ireland, New Zealand, etc giving up control of the
players like that. If you want to be an All Black, you need to
be playing in NZ. That's why NEv was always listed in the past
tense on the ABs website even while he was still playing for us.
The NZRU are not going to relinquish control of, say, the
Barrett brothers . Same with Ireland. Their regional set up is
built to develop players for the national squad. No way are they
going to give up control of their top players.
Talking of players, if there's 8 "teams" that means a likely
squad of 35-40 in each, as you need players to train against, to
cover injuries etc. 8*40 is 320 players. Are you seriously
saying you can attract 300+ of the top players from across the
globe? Even spread equally across the top 12 countries that's
approx 27 players from each country. Plus you'll need
experienced coaches for each team, referees, etc. all from the
existing pool.
There's very little chance that fans will suddenly flock to
these new created franchises. You only have to look at
regionalisation in Wales to see how well new teams fare. Can you
really see Sarries and Quins fans deserting Quins for the London
Legionnaires? I very much doubt that.
#Post#: 140885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 30, 2025, 5:08 am
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--- Quote from: Bod link ---
>
> ...If you compare and contrast their historical outcomes with
that of the RFU they have a markedly better track record...
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you mean the RFU or PRL?
The RFU's big commmercial mistakes were not securing control
over the nascent professional league back in the late 1990s, and
spending the windfall from RWC 2015 on a hospitality suite
immediately before the bottom dropping out of the hospitality
market (and the wider economy). But overall, it's commercially
pretty well run, despite the screaming headlines about £30m
losses (which occur because the RFU has a big fixed csot base
and one main revenue source - matches at HQ - that varies
significantly over the RWC cycle; some years are in surplus,
some years are in deficit)
The PRL, on the other hand, has struggled with profitability but
has managed to build Prem attendances and revenues significantly
over the past 30 years. The question is what it would take to
tipe the majority of clubs into breakeven or better - and what's
not clear is how much of the current round of losses is at the
operating level versus trading COVID repayments for shareholder
debt.
Either way, it's likely that R360 faces a long haul to get to
sustainability... and a big question has to be whether the
backers have deep enough pockets to get it there. In other
sports, breakaway leagues have as far as I know only worked when
enough of the leading clubs are behind it that the governing
bodies' hands are forced. That worked for the soccer
Premiership, for instance.
I'm not sure it would work if what they're doing is enticing
players away from clubs at the cost of being cut off from
international rugby. I seem to remember that happened to rugby
before, and the sport has never really recovered from it over a
century later.
#Post#: 140890--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man U, Liverpool, Red Bull - the new Pro Union option?
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 30, 2025, 5:20 am
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--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
>
> It is very close in model to the Sevens model that lost £30m a
year, so you go to locations and three men and their dog turn
up, has no fan base for the made up teams.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm guessing you haven't been to Hong Kong, Dubai, Singapore etc
Hardly "3 men and a dog"
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