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#Post#: 140088--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: July 6, 2025, 4:38 am
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Ford proved his worth for sure and only puts the pressure on
both Smiths, as Ford worked with the game plan for SB
wants.Atkinson deserves a good run in the side. Can we also
steal him?
#Post#: 140089--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: Yareet
Date: July 6, 2025, 4:41 am
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Pre-game I expected a something like a 35-12 result but the
other way.
Fair play to England, that is a very good result
#Post#: 140090--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: July 6, 2025, 6:54 am
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--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> F. Smith is an excellent player, but he's at that stage that
every good new player goes through when people work them out and
they have to see if they can move to a new level. Some of them
do, some don't.
>
--- End Quote ---
I would say he is a good player not a great player, was better
in europe than the league last season as teams in the prem had
started to work him out, he also was poor in the final against
Bordeaux,
Lacks the ability of Ford to follow a game plan, and will never
have the pure natural ability of Marcus, if England do not want
to start Marcus at 10 start Ford and have Marcus on the bench.
F Smith is a swiss army knife type of 10, and only functions
behind ascendant forwards, where both Ford and Marcus play
better when their pack does not dominate.
10's need to adapt in matches, not sure that taking a season to
adapt is that impressive.
#Post#: 140091--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 6, 2025, 7:41 am
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I think that's overstating it a bit.
We've seen plenty of times over the years that Marcus (like
pretty much any 10) works best when he has forwards who can get
the team on the front foot; when Quins don't have parity up
front, Quins have tended to get hammered unless they adopt
unusual tactics such as repeatedly chipping over the defensive
line (a trick that I wish we'd remember when it's needed...).
Ford is better than either of them at coping with a retreating
pack, because his positional kicking is the best of the three
and he has more experience. Even then, yesterday's performance
owed a huge amount to the forwards doing the hard carries and
closing down Argentina in defence.
What we have seen in Marcus's cameos down under is that he reads
the space better than any of the fly halves on show, and has
more tools for making use of it. What we've also seen is that
the Lions don't always have the brains on the pitch to use the
space he finds effectively.
#Post#: 140092--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: Yareet
Date: July 6, 2025, 8:03 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> I think that's overstating it a bit.
>
> We've seen plenty of times over the years that Marcus (like
pretty much any 10) works best when he has forwards who can get
the team on the front foot; when Quins don't have parity up
front, Quins have tended to get hammered unless they adopt
unusual tactics such as repeatedly chipping over the defensive
line (a trick that I wish we'd remember when it's needed...).
>
> Ford is better than either of them at coping with a retreating
pack, because his positional kicking is the best of the three
and he has more experience. Even then, yesterday's performance
owed a huge amount to the forwards doing the hard carries and
closing down Argentina in defence.
>
> What we have seen in Marcus's cameos down under is that he
reads the space better than any of the fly halves on show, and
has more tools for making use of it. What we've also seen is
that the Lions don't always have the brains on the pitch to use
the space he finds effectively.
>
--- End Quote ---
Caveated by the fact that I’m a loosehead and therefore only
have a passing interest in the higher-numbered positions, I can
also be fairly nausey about the game.
I’d also like to think I’m one of the non-Quins fans who it’s
agreed posts in good faith.
Lastly, I have no skin in this game. I don’t really care who
plays for the Lions as long as we wi n the series.
So please explain it to me so a prop can understand and
preferably with examples.
What are you all seeing that I’m not?
What opportunities did Marcus create that the Lions lacked the
intelligence to exploit? Which 4-5 chances did Fin butcher than
Marcus would’ve scored?
My take on yestrrday’s game is that the forwards were lacklustre
at rucks so none of the half backs had an easy ride. IMO, no
provincial/club player should be getting 4 jackals against the
Lions.
That said, I can’t know what goes on behind closed doors. Was
this week a particularly heavy training schedule? Were the
players demotivated as they’d been told that the Brumbies game
will be largely the Test XXIII?
#Post#: 140093--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 6, 2025, 8:28 am
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I didn't say Fin butchered anything, but he runs a fairly
conventional backline most of the time. He'll create space by
running the system, but he's less likely to see a potential gap
and do something off the cuff to capitalise on it, and he's not
that much of a running threat. One thing he did do badly was
that the timing of his passes to Tuipolutu were off, which did
stop a couple of promising attacks in their tracks.
More or less Marcus's first touch after coming on was to put in
a kick pass to the right wing, where there was enough space that
the Lions made good yards only to stay wide for one phase too
many after the defence got across and lose it. Something similar
happened a few minutes later when he floated a long pass over
the top of the defence to the left wing.
Where it did work better was Beirne's try against Argentina,
where it's Marcus's running that makes the try. He gets the ball
out wide and cuts in slightly, beating four defenders and
drawing two more into the ruck, all of whom are then isolated on
the short side - leaving the big hole that Beirne runs into. He
also called the reverse play against the Force for Daly's second
try; I think Russell would have called that too, but I don't
think Fin Smith would have called it on the hoof, because he's
not that sort of player.
#Post#: 140094--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: July 6, 2025, 8:39 am
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I actually thought I was in the middle of a fever dream when
England started moving it at pace across the back line. When I
woke up this morning, I had to double check!!!
Argentina threw it away in the first half by not passing it to
their backs and letting the forwards 'white line fever'
everything. When they started doing that after England pulled
away, they looked more dangerous.
Big shout out to Fin Baxter, he was everywhere and tackled
everything. As it was only an afterthought Sky production, they
didn't show any useful stats other than high level but he must
have been top tackler.
Thought all the Quins boys showed well too. Dommers looked
slimmer and showed how good his hands are, as well as getting
stuck in. I did have a memory that England had told him to bulk
up in the first place, so if they've now got him to slim
down?????
#Post#: 140095--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 6, 2025, 9:57 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> I’m a loosehead...
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Is that a subtle way of asking us not to use words of more than
two syllables? 😁😁😂😂😂
#Post#: 140100--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: Which Tyler
Date: July 6, 2025, 2:41 pm
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--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> F. Smith is an excellent player, but he's at that stage that
every good new player goes through when people work them out and
they have to see if they can move to a new level. Some of them
do, some don't.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's what I call second Season Syndrome, and is why I never
advocate to pick a player in their breakthrough season at their
club.
Fin's in his SSS at international level, and seems to be dealing
with it okay at the moment, if not as well as the media hype (as
ever in this country).
Ford is one of the best 2 Lions eligible FHs at the moment, he's
just always been behind you-know-who for hype, and a bit
sacrificed now for the future of the Smiths
#Post#: 140102--------------------------------------------------
Re: ARGENTINA v ENGLAND - Saturday 5 July 2025
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: July 6, 2025, 5:07 pm
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Ford was rubbish in the first half of the season including his
England cameos but finished strongly. At his best he's the best
10 in the country and I'd argue up there fighting with Russell
for the top spot.
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