DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 139656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Quinky
Date: June 23, 2025, 7:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> I know this is common wisdom, but I always think it's a bit
oppressive and conservative. It's saying the coach can only
manage one type of game. I'd rather England look at the best
players they have available and choose a gameplan that brings
the best out of them.
>
--- End Quote ---
The one flaw here is that the coach in question is Borthwick.
I'd say he struggles to cope with even one style.
#Post#: 139657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: June 23, 2025, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Absolutely. Russell will be first choice due to form and of
course experience, coupled with a touch of sentiment IMO.
>
> My comment was more about Fin Smith being England's first
choice.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have my doubts around Fin Smith long term for England, may
well turn out to be another Freddie Stewart, when teams start
looking at his overall game and what they can exploit, but that
is just my personal view.
#Post#: 139658--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: June 23, 2025, 7:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hahahaha, brilliant intervention, Quinky. 🤣
For sure, FAF (your surname isn't De Klerk, is it??? 😃),
there's no point having a backs minded coach if you don't have
the talent pool around to deliver that plan. What backs need is
space to operate in (i'm a forward so might be making that bit
up) and if you look at more attritional sides like Exeter,
Tigers, cheats all had great success with pretty good backs as
well but the forwards going phase after phase gives them the
space to work in. There will always be a great move from the
backs that scores off first phase and we should know, we concede
most of them!!!
Even Chris Ashton said that his Mum could have played on the
wing in that Saracen's side as they opened up space for him and
the backs to move in to and their natural instincts kick in. For
England, the problem we have is that Borthicks instincts want
that attritional game of breaking sides down with phase play but
with Saints or Quins players at 9/10 they are more attuned to
moving it after a phase or two. It's stuck between two stools
as it stands so doesn't get the best out of the backs, other
than Elliott Daly and his wonder try's....
#Post#: 139659--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Yareet
Date: June 23, 2025, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> I know this is common wisdom, but I always think it's a bit
oppressive and conservative. It's saying the coach can only
manage one type of game. I'd rather England look at the best
players they have available and choose a gameplan that brings
the best out of them. Do we have a bunch of enormous blokes who
are slow and don't pass? Then a strong forwards-focused game. A
bunch of brilliant, fluid backs? Then find a gameplan that works
for them. I would say that England have players who are solid in
the forwards, but right now have a good selection of backs who
are very skilled and fast, so we should have a gameplan that
brings those backs into play as much as we can. But what do I
know? I'm not an international coach or player, so I expect I'm
talking ****.
>
--- End Quote ---
Who defines the best players? By what criteria?
By having a pre-decided gameplan, a coach can look to marry
player skillsets/strengths to that plan. Otherwise he risks
chopping and changing based on the vagaries of form or public
opinion.
Looked at another way, teams talk about the importance of having
an identity. That must inform the gameplan and is impossible if
you're not selecting players who fit that mould. If Smith left
tomorrow, I'm not sure how suitable a replacement Pollard would
be despite most people agreeing that is a great player.
#Post#: 139661--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Quinky
Date: June 23, 2025, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> It's stuck between two stools as it stands...
>
--- End Quote ---
Other than the toilets at Glastonbury, the Paris Metro, and some
parts of San Francisco, I can't imagine where this would be
happening...
#Post#: 139662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: June 23, 2025, 8:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You're on fire, Quinky
#Post#: 139666--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: FrostAndFire
Date: June 23, 2025, 10:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Who defines the best players? By what criteria?
>
> By having a pre-decided gameplan, a coach can look to marry
player skillsets/strengths to that plan. Otherwise he risks
chopping and changing based on the vagaries of form or public
opinion.
>
> Looked at another way, teams talk about the importance of
having an identity. That must inform the gameplan and is
impossible if you're not selecting players who fit that mould.
If Smith left tomorrow, I'm not sure how suitable a replacement
Pollard would be despite most people agreeing that is a great
player.
>
--- End Quote ---
Maybe you're right. I just have a suspicion that Borthwick only
has one game plan and that it might not be the one that best
suits England's current crop of players.
#Post#: 139673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Yareet
Date: June 23, 2025, 12:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FrostAndFire link ---
>
> Maybe you're right. I just have a suspicion that Borthwick
only has one game plan and that it might not be the one that
best suits England's current crop of players.
>
--- End Quote ---
Or he’s picking the wrong players.
🤷🏼‍♂️
A problem with being England coach is you have 10 clubs playing
in at least 4 different ways. Each club will have clubs who
“have” to be selected.
Take 10 as an example. Any of Smith, Smith or Ford can lay claim
to being a very good player. But they play in such different
ways.
#Post#: 139679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: June 23, 2025, 2:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
> Marcus has played most of his games at 10 lumbered with the
likes of Slade and Malins, who just aren't fast enough to
respond to what he can do.
>
--- End Quote ---
What did Malins do to be lumped in with Slade? The few times
he's played with Marcus they've dovetailed nicely.
#Post#: 139681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: June 23, 2025, 2:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> What did Malins do to be lumped in with Slade? The few times
he's played with Marcus they've dovetailed nicely.
>
--- End Quote ---
1 Played for Saracens
2 Failed flyhalf
3 Played for Saracens
*****************************************************
Page 5 of 6
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page