DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 139630--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: June 22, 2025, 11:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Any player who can only function with "the right players"
around them is inherently limited. Marcus needs to deal with
that if he wants to be more than a very good bench option.
>
--- End Quote ---
Marcus needs a ball carrying 12 and a creative 13 that runs good
lines, and flankers that run on his shoulder, any halfback needs
decent quality around them and players that complement their
skill set.
If you put Dupont into the American Samoa team they would still
lose.
#Post#: 139632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: June 22, 2025, 12:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you need to pick the side that plays to your 10s
strengths, rather than give him a problem of getting to know
what's around him from scratch. Tuipolotu and Jones outside and
Kinghorn coming off the other shoulder and Marcus at 10 is
terrifying for defences. Not so much with the other 2 options
because they're not gonna step and beat the defence with pace.
#Post#: 139634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: June 22, 2025, 12:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> Yeah, you need to pick the side that plays to your 10s
strengths ...
>
--- End Quote ---
No you don't. It is absolutely not the overriding concern when
selecting an international team.
The only people saying this that I've seen are on this forum.
Elsewhere the most commonly voiced opinions are that Marcus is
definitely not a starting 15 and Fin or Finn will be the
starting 10 for the Lions. Most people also seem to think Fin
Smith is England's first choice 10 although at least Marcus has
a few supporters as a 10.
#Post#: 139636--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: June 22, 2025, 12:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Opinions vary
#Post#: 139638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: poorfour
Date: June 22, 2025, 1:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
And the only one that matters right now is Andy Farrell's.
Professional coaches clearly see something different in Marcus
as a 15 than fans and pundits - probably that having a second
playmaker of that quality presents defences problems they find
hard to solve.
That said, I hope he gets a chance to play 10 with a decent
lineup around him.
As for whether you fit the system to the player or the player to
the system, doesn't it depend on the player in question? Most
flyhalves, one way or another, create opportunities by
manipulating defences with a phase play system. When you have a
player who can do something more than that, you can ask them to
play phase play, but then you lose out on their unique
qualities. Marcus has played most of his games at 10 lumbered
with the likes of Slade and Malins, who just aren't fast enough
to respond to what he can do.
#Post#: 139639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Quinky
Date: June 23, 2025, 2:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Most people also seem to think Fin Smith is England's first
choice 10
>
--- End Quote ---
Then God help England.
#Post#: 139647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Rugbycat
Date: June 23, 2025, 4:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Then God help England.
>
--- End Quote ---
Fin smith is in the honeymoon period of his England career, and
if Mitchell is injured or dropped his selection may be less
clear cut.
Time will tell how good Fin is, in the same way that time is
running out for the other Finn, and this is likely his last
Lions tour, and chance too make his mark in history for them,
which will make him hard to move from the 10 spot on this tour.
#Post#: 139653--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Quinky
Date: June 23, 2025, 5:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rugbycat link ---
>
> Fin smith is in the honeymoon period of his England career,
and if Mitchell is injured or dropped his selection may be less
clear cut.
> Time will tell how good Fin is, in the same way that time is
running out for the other Finn, and this is likely his last
Lions tour, and chance too make his mark in history for them,
which will make him hard to move from the 10 spot on this tour.
>
--- End Quote ---
Absolutely. Russell will be first choice due to form and of
course experience, coupled with a touch of sentiment IMO.
My comment was more about Fin Smith being England's first
choice.
#Post#: 139654--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: June 23, 2025, 6:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> And the only one that matters right now is Andy Farrell's.
>
> Professional coaches clearly see something different in Marcus
as a 15 than fans and pundits - probably that having a second
playmaker of that quality presents defences problems they find
hard to solve.
>
> That said, I hope he gets a chance to play 10 with a decent
lineup around him.
>
> As for whether you fit the system to the player or the player
to the system, doesn't it depend on the player in question? Most
flyhalves, one way or another, create opportunities by
manipulating defences with a phase play system. When you have a
player who can do something more than that, you can ask them to
play phase play, but then you lose out on their unique
qualities. Marcus has played most of his games at 10 lumbered
with the likes of Slade and Malins, who just aren't fast enough
to respond to what he can do.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think more holistically, you pick your system and then the
players to play that. If Borethick wants a less expansive
attack, then don't pick Marcus. Courage of your convictions and
all that. If Fin, Ford, Farrell play the gameplan more regularly
then you want them in your side. Picking Marcus as the magician
should something go wrong says that you don't trust your own
plan.
I hate the thought of Marcus ending up without a solid England
career, but if the coach doesn't fancy him in his actual
position, leave him out.
#Post#: 139655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lions v Pumas
DIR By: FrostAndFire
Date: June 23, 2025, 6:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> I think more holistically, you pick your system and then the
players to play that. If Borethick wants a less expansive
attack, then don't pick Marcus. Courage of your convictions and
all that. If Fin, Ford, Farrell play the gameplan more regularly
then you want them in your side. Picking Marcus as the magician
should something go wrong says that you don't trust your own
plan.
>
> I hate the thought of Marcus ending up without a solid England
career, but if the coach doesn't fancy him in his actual
position, leave him out.
>
--- End Quote ---
I know this is common wisdom, but I always think it's a bit
oppressive and conservative. It's saying the coach can only
manage one type of game. I'd rather England look at the best
players they have available and choose a gameplan that brings
the best out of them. Do we have a bunch of enormous blokes who
are slow and don't pass? Then a strong forwards-focused game. A
bunch of brilliant, fluid backs? Then find a gameplan that works
for them. I would say that England have players who are solid in
the forwards, but right now have a good selection of backs who
are very skilled and fast, so we should have a gameplan that
brings those backs into play as much as we can. But what do I
know? I'm not an international coach or player, so I expect I'm
talking shit.
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 6
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page