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#Post#: 138714--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: The Kid
Date: May 24, 2025, 1:23 pm
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A lot of this chat about our signings being older is driving me
nuts. Yes, they're more veteran players, but when you look at
who we have lost, who we have brought in and why, and whether
the position group got better as a result of that, there isn't
too much to be mad about.
For example, here is a depth chart of sorts for our forwards.
Players in bold are new, and in italics are over 30.
[attachimg=1]
there's a lot of players from the class of 2021 who are now
25-29. They are in their prime, or supposed to be. The players
we have signed play specific roles that we needed filling to
make the most of those guys.
- In 2025, you need a bomb squad. This means two starting THs of
decent calibre. We didn't have a second one other than Kerrod,
who is covering loosehead too. One who is a two year rental
until Streeter comes through. Enter Harry Williams. Not the best
player in the world, but you see the rationale. If he plays
well, maybe Titi is more effective as an impact player only?
- We are losing Dino Lamb, and can't rely on Lewies to run the
lineout every week. Enter Guido Petti, who led the Champions Cup
winners in lineout receptions, and can cover 4 and 6. Ideal
replacement.
- Herbst and Hammond are both also gone. Need to replace them
with a workhorse, Treadwell is replacing both of them in one,
alongside the hope (more than expectation) that we get more
minutes our of Lewies as he empties the tank
- Of all of them, Turner is the one "luxury item" but is in the
right mould and adds something different to the room; can you
really say that the other three are as dynamic? Hooker is a
specialism, like scrum half, every team probably needs the depth
They're older, but they're specific signings to augment a squad
that is supposed to be in its prime. Note if you were to do this
with the backs, with DC and some others gone, Townsend (if he
joins) will be the only senior back over 30. 9 is the only group
that has gone backwards in quality, in my view. The rest are all
upgrades, albeit small ones. Storm in a teacup, all of it.
Much more important is how we are being set up to play, and in
that I have much less faith.
#Post#: 138715--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 24, 2025, 1:55 pm
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--- Quote from: The Kid ---
>
> ...
> a squad that is supposed to be in its prime
> ...
--- End Quote ---
So we're aiming for what - 7th or 8th place, maybe 6th?
Does that level of ambition suggest a team who are apparently
spending up to the cap.
#Post#: 138717--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: The Kid
Date: May 24, 2025, 2:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> So we're aiming for what - 7th or 8th place, maybe 6th?
>
> Does that level of ambition suggest a team who are apparently
spending up to the cap.
>
--- End Quote ---
Comes down to whether you think this is about the players, or
the coaching. Coached and motivated properly, this team can win
this league. If we had, say, Pat Lam or Dowson / Vesty coaching
this group, we would be in the playoffs every year.
I challenge you to look around the league and find other squads
with better depth and quality in the first 30 or so players than
ours. In my view, we are comparable to Saints, for example, who
have just narrowly lost a european final and won a premiership a
year ago while making a semi and are there because they're well
coached and have a clear identity (I doubt they care how old
their squad is).
I, for one, have seen enough from the core of this team (Walker,
Lewies, Wev, Kenningham, Dombrandt, Marcus, Cadan, Northmore,
Tyrone) and the players around them now that we can finish in
the top four every year they're all still around if motivated
and used properly. We have addressed most of the gaps left by
departing players, and the squad is slightly better. The
signings, while older players, are logical given who we have
lost and the makeup of the squad.
I think as fans we are too caught up on one or two star players
being difference makers. Unless you're bath and can somehow
afford Finn Russell (he's their marquee) and Thomas du Toit (how
they're paying him and Stuart I will never know), this isn't how
the league works because the money isn't there anymore after
COVID. This, as a result, is not how squads are being built.
We lost Andre unexpectedly a year early, Marler retired
unexpectedly. Care also retired early. I would expect this money
to be used to build depth, rather than pull in another
Andre-like marquee signing from somewhere, which will make us
less reliant on 4-5 key players and better equipped to compete
for the top 4 based on a stronger squad overall.
#Post#: 138718--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: May 24, 2025, 2:41 pm
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Whatever it is that makes a team click can’t be be preempted. We
will only know how all the new players will work together next
season when they start to play competitive games and we can see
the results. We can speculate and pontificate but we don’t know
who is available at what price. If you need a hooker and out of
the available candidates Turner is the best option then you
recruit him. I think some people don’t take into consideration
availability, cost and quality. You might want Anton DuPont but
is he available, can you afford him and does he want to come to
Quins.
#Post#: 138719--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 24, 2025, 3:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Side note, I think Bath can afford both those players because
one joined young and both were relative unknowns. Stuart has
improved massively in his time there and TdT didn't make too
many waves at Munster or Toulouse. I think TdT is much like
Louw, a guy not commanding top dollar until some standout
seasons. Bath will have to pay a lot more to keep him next time
the contract discussion happens.
I reckon it's very similar to our Louw and Collier scenario.
#Post#: 138720--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 24, 2025, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> So we're aiming for what - 7th or 8th place, maybe 6th?
>
> Does that level of ambition suggest a team who are apparently
spending up to the cap.
>
--- End Quote ---
We had some annoying/agonising close defeats in the first part
of the season. It doesn't take a lot to change a team's final
position in such a small league.
#Post#: 138721--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: May 24, 2025, 3:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Side note, I think Bath can afford both those players because
one joined young and both were relative unknowns. Stuart has
improved massively in his time there and TdT didn't make too
many waves at Munster or Toulouse. I think TdT is much like
Louw, a guy not commanding top dollar until some standout
seasons. Bath will have to pay a lot more to keep him next time
the contract discussion happens.
>
> I reckon it's very similar to our Louw and Collier scenario.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, similar. Both were very much under the radar. But then they
weren't, and people came knocking. And neither of them are with
us any more.
We've all heard the 'oh yeah, he was with us as an academy kid
so hell take less money to stay with us forever cos of loyalty'
somewhere before.
Meanwhile along come carreras and Arundell for apparently
nothing.
#Post#: 138723--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 24, 2025, 4:04 pm
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The club has said on several occasions that it costs more to
keep an academy kid than to build a squad around imports.
In the case of Collier, he had a good run at Quins and stayed
until it was clear he wasn’t in serious contention for England
honours, and at that point the wages on offer in France were too
good to turn down. You can’t begrudge him that or blame the club
for letting him go.
Wilco went back home at the start of a new RWC cycle, presumably
in the hope of catching the eye of the Bok selectors, but also
because he had an opportunity to return to the Bulls, where he’d
played most of his age grade rugby.
It will be interesting to see how Bath’s squad changes as those
contracts come up for renewal. But Arundell you can understand
coming back for a reasonable price given he’s back in contention
for England.
#Post#: 138724--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 24, 2025, 5:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> Yes, similar. Both were very much under the radar. But then
they weren't, and people came knocking. And neither of them are
with us any more.
>
> We've all heard the 'oh yeah, he was with us as an academy kid
so hell take less money to stay with us forever cos of loyalty'
somewhere before.
>
> Meanwhile along come carreras and Arundell for apparently
nothing.
>
--- End Quote ---
Arundell has been absolutely mince in France and his attitude
isn't all that. I'd not be surprised if clubs weren't all that
keen on him. Equally you might be right and he might be hot
property still.
Carreras is a funny one. It's not like Glaws are a big money
side or anything.
Bath's squad suggests good coaching is still paramount, we're a
long way from the Saracens era here. You take a look at this
lot:
HTML https://www.bathrugby.com/teams/men/squad-list
and you
realise that oh yeah actually they have a lot of just decent
club players supplemented by a handful of stars.
#Post#: 138725--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: May 25, 2025, 1:14 am
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Let’s stop worrying about other teams signings and embrace the
fact we are going to have an AMAZING third season under Wilson.
All those near defeats or games we barely bothered to leave the
carpark will be brushed under the carpet and doomsayers like me
silenced
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