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#Post#: 138681--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 23, 2025, 5:30 pm
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I get the concern. On the flip side, playing in Japan is used to
extend the careers of top SH players and in that respect it's
worked very well, judging by the successes of those who went and
did it later in their career. Turner was in top condition when
he left. Launchbury, not so much.
#Post#: 138682--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: honkytonk
Date: May 23, 2025, 5:50 pm
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Lewies played in Japan also
#Post#: 138687--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: May 24, 2025, 4:19 am
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> You're being harsh on Lewies I fear, but Launchbury has been
anonymous, Halfpenny dreadful, and Wyn Jones a crashing
disappointment.
>
> Couldn't agree more with the last line, though. I'm just
arguing against the original assertion that we are lacking that
apparently important group of 26-31 year olds. We're obviously
not, as it's the core of the team.
>
> Petti and Treadwell are both players in that crucial age
range. Herbst is 32 - he's aged out of the group, so good
riddance ;-) - so that's an improvement, right? Finn Russell is
also 32, fwiw. As is Ben Spencer. It's a pretty arbitrary cutoff
point, honestly.
>
> With the hookers it's clear that we have one solid experienced
performer and some unreliable younger players. Having Turner
join is an excellent addition - he plays in a style that will
complement what we do, he's a very experienced international,
and he'd have to have nosedived in quality to be not worth at
least a matchday squad place.
>
> We're still light in the second row, but Treadwell was good
enough to play for Ireland and is a pretty beastly player, and
Petti is a super experienced hard nut of an Argentinian
international. These are upgrades over Lamb (largely because of
availability, but IMO Treadwell is as good as him on the pitch
and Petti the superior player) and Hammond (by a mile), but not
necessarily over Herbst. They're good signings and should
improve our team overall, which is the most important thing that
you and I clearly agree on.
>
> Harry Williams I think is a disaster waiting to happen but
_IF_ the famed "Bomb will work on him" line actually bears
fruit, then we get a guy who's won plenty of trophies and is
absolutely gigantic with an excellent work ethic. I think he'll
be quite a bit better than Titi regardless, but I fear for him
in the scrum specifically. Getting a couple of good years out of
him would be very positive.
>
--- End Quote ---
Your right. 32 is absolutely an arbitrary number. And players
peak years are likely to vary dependent on position etc. But I
was using it to demonstrate the broader point that we've been
signing stop gap players. My perception is that of late our
squad has weighted to either end of the age spectrum but I must
confess I've not done any analysis. One for Neil Quinnock
perhaps.
Petti is an excellent signing and one which does improve our
starting fifteen.
For me, Treadwell is a like-for-like replacement for Irne. Big
units who are there to make lots of first up tackles.
My irritation is that we've kept the wrong locks in Launchbury
and Lewies.
Lewies has been magnificent for us, but we're going back a few
seasons now. Given his injury record and age, I think it's right
to question the decision to extend his contract.
If it's Turner of a few seasons ago, then I agree he's an
upgrade on Walker. The proof will be in the pudding.
Tighthead is depressing. Titi who can't run or Harry who can't
scrum. Let's hope Streeter and Hobson are ready for breakthrough
campaigns.
#Post#: 138689--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: connaughtquin
Date: May 24, 2025, 4:48 am
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According to Rugby Database, he played 12 games out of a
possible 18 & he scored 5 tries - I'll take that.
#Post#: 138691--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 24, 2025, 5:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: KentQuin link ---
>
> Your right. 32 is absolutely an arbitrary number. And players
peak years are likely to vary dependent on position etc. But I
was using it to demonstrate the broader point that we've been
signing stop gap players. My perception is that of late our
squad has weighted to either end of the age spectrum but I must
confess I've not done any analysis. One for Neil Quinnock
perhaps
--- End Quote ---
We have a good spread of ages and I think we like to bring in
these players to tide us over because we rely on academy output
a lot. Presumably Quins would rather not stunt the development
of future players by paying big money for someone in a position
where the long term solution is still coming through.
I think it's interesting to look at it on a position by position
basis.
Loosehad - Baxter is the long term first choice. Anyone else is
going to be backup.
Hooker - we've just lost the long term solution to this
position, so we've signed someone quality while our younger
players step up (or not)
Tighthead - We have two monster youngsters but the senior
options are lacking. We've signed someone with a fantastic
record but with a huge question mark over him. Hmm.
Locks - We've lost a big asset in Herbst and a rarely available
one in Lamb, along with a deeply disappointing academy product
in Hammond (I sense you rate him more than I do - he was a huge
problem for us this season, I don't think he's got what it
takes). We've replaced these guys with an extremely large
academy product and two internationals, one of which is absolute
quality. I don't know anything about the other future options
but presumably Green is one of them!
Back row - we are stacked here and have lost Trenholm but have
ample alternatives. The future looks good.
Scrum half - Danny retired a season earlier than expected, but I
think that's a good thing. We have a good-not-great first choice
and a couple of very promising but very raw youngsters. We've
cleared out a bit and have signed an extremely experienced and
successful player as backup while the youngsters mature.
Fly half - We have Marcus and JEv, with Benson as the future
option along with Slevin. No worries here.
Inside Centre - Perennial issues, but Waghorn is both the
incumbent and the likely long term option. Others are Bradley
and maybe Kerr but we are undoubtedly light here and it's a
problem.
Outside Centre - Stacked. Beard is the incumbent and the long
term future, Kerr is the young kid who'll push in future
seasons, Northmore is absolutely quality in this position.
Wings - Stacked. Murley is only 25 and already a Quins legend.
Isgro, David, Cleaves, plus Green when we need him is a good
mix. Anderson isn't up to it. No worries about the future as it
stands.
Fullback - A bit light. David hasn't played there much, Green is
an excellent first choice but our options behind him are
limited. A signing is probably required with the loss of
Halfpenny (no laughing at the back)
The obvious places where a new first choice signing makes sense
are 12 and 15, and maaaybe 9. Otherwise... it doesn't make a
whole heap of sense to throw big money at anywhere else in the
backline or in the scrum beyond what we've already done (with
the big caveat of "they think Harry Williams can scrum, in which
case he's an excellent signing"). Sure, I'd love us to have
world class players in every position but it doesn't work like
that in this league. You look at the big signings from other
teams and they're either fixing holes or replacing leaving
players.
Ultimately, the problem is going to be getting the best out of
the players. I don't think we actually lack a lot of quality or
anything post-clearout. My worry is with the coaching, a lack of
locks, and the tighthead + 12 situations.
--- Quote ---
> Tighthead is depressing. Titi who can't run or Harry who can't
scrum. Let's hope Streeter and Hobson are ready for breakthrough
campaigns.
>
--- End Quote ---
Be fair, Titi can't really scrum either
#Post#: 138693--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 24, 2025, 5:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit ---
>
> [quote]
> Tighthead is depressing. Titi who can't run or Harry who can't
scrum. Let's hope Streeter and Hobson are ready for breakthrough
campaigns.
>
--- End Quote ---
Be fair, Titi can't really scrum either
[/quote]
I think that deserved a post of its own. 😁
#Post#: 138701--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 24, 2025, 8:48 am
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It’s pretty common for a prop to take a season or so to adapt to
a new club’s scrummaging style before they become fully
effective. Players who have an immediate impact like Louw have
historically been the exception rather than the rule.
We’ve also seen players turn around their scrummaging pretty
quickly. Will Stuart was a real risk in the scrum until this
season, but a change in approach has seen him become a credible
all round tighthead.
Presumably Bomb has had a major say in front row recruitment and
Quins have picked players he feels he can work with. Titi I
think has been improving over the course of the season, but I
would expect him to improve further with another pre-season
under his belt. Williams is a different style of player and my
guess is that Bomb sees some relatively quick fixes in his
technique (and the physios think they can keep him fit).
Quins’ recruitment has tended to work better with fairly
unheralded players than with major stars, and at the moment we
seem to be recruiting specifically with an eye to bringing our
next round of academy players through.
#Post#: 138703--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 24, 2025, 9:44 am
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Titi has not improved. He was an absolute liability against
Sale, for example, and that was one of the final games of the
season.
This faith in Adam Jones is not based on a huge amount and I
don't agree that props usually take a season to settle in. This
seems like excuse making.
#Post#: 138704--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: May 24, 2025, 10:07 am
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Titi is painfully slow all round the park and a defensive
liability but his scrummaging has improved a bit. An odd
recruitment decision to be honest.
Welcome George Turner though!
#Post#: 138710--------------------------------------------------
Re: George Turner
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 24, 2025, 11:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Titi has not improved. He was an absolute liability against
Sale, for example, and that was one of the final games of the
season.
>
> This faith in Adam Jones is not based on a huge amount and I
don't agree that props usually take a season to settle in. This
seems like excuse making.
>
--- End Quote ---
Scrummaging isn't just about the prop. I'm not sure which side
if the second row Hammond usually plays, but it could be a big
part of the issue.
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