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       #Post#: 137249--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: April 26, 2025, 6:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I would also suggest that it's entirely possible there is
       discontent or cliques or "player power"
       problems or whatever, but given championes isn't even pretending
       to be doing anything other than making wild guesses it's pretty
       funny how people have decided that it's fact now.
       Personally I think if there were player power issues then we'd
       probably be at least trying to play the style of rugby that saw
       us succeed previously and that our players are suited to, but
       that's just a guess
       #Post#: 137251--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: T-Bone
       Date: April 27, 2025, 1:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm not sure who the players would be trying to undermine the
       coaches. Marler has left. Care is no longer first choice. Marcus
       is away half the time. Who are the senior players who would be
       leading the revolt?
       We have some players who are regularly selected for the match
       day squad who really need to be moved on. Then we have a large
       group of players who I think are more than up to it but who
       seems to be playing badly. That's got to be a coaching thing.
       Then you had fringe squad players who you always need and can't
       expect to be first team standard.
       I'm happy to include Nev and bomb in the coaching issues but it
       starts at the top. Millard went MIA and Wilson has been allowed
       to work his reverse magic on the squad
       #Post#: 137252--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: Carbonm
       Date: April 27, 2025, 1:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It's definitely a discussion worth having,. regardless of form
       how many of this playing group are the required quality to
       challenge the top four?
       Green
       Murley
       Beard
       Marcus
       Porter
       Dombramdt
       Kenningham
       Baxter
       I can't think of too many more who are good enough/consistent
       enough to push us forward. Wilson needs to go but it's not all
       on him.
       Recruitment has been awful, Isgro looks decent and has potential
       but that's about it and losing Jibilu (another potentially
       brilliant player) shows a real lack of ambition. I haven't seen
       any signings for next season to get me excited, some decent
       players to plug gaps but that's about it.
       I'm not trying to sound deliberately pessimistic but if Wilson
       does go whoever comes in won't be able to change it overnight
       #Post#: 137254--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: A222Quin
       Date: April 27, 2025, 2:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have to agree that the recruitment has been poor. Losing
       Collier and replacing him with Titi, losing Andre, one of the
       world’s best centres and effectively doing naff all to replace
       him and shoving Northmore in there out of position. Some of our
       most influential players are perennially injured (Lewies and
       Chis).
       Dombrandt is relatively inexperienced as a captain but gets
       little leadership assistance from those round him.
       We’re back to where we were a decade ago where we insist we’re
       spending up to the cap but getting awful value from it. The time
       when we pretty much had George Robson as the only senior 2nd
       row.
       Petti and Tredwell should be handy additions and improve the
       squad. Williams is another one of those signings that makes me
       shrug my shoulders. We’re probably in the position where we need
       to commit to next season being one where we let the younger guys
       in certain positions play more than average and care less about
       the results and ultimate position but let them take the
       experience. It’d take an amount of external recruitment that we
       just don’t have cap space for to make additions to challenge
       again next year.
       It feels like the whole club lived off the high of 2021 a bit
       too long and just thought we could carry on doing whatever and
       not keep up the hard work and evolve the playing style as others
       moved on. Thats surely on the coaching team as a collective.
       #Post#: 137255--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: PinguthePenQuin
       Date: April 27, 2025, 2:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I completely disagree that the playing group are done. However,
       I can't understand why the club haven't removed Wilson yet.
       Let's be absolutely clear, Quins have been decimated by
       injuries, which explains why things are particularly tough right
       now, but it wasn't that long ago we were talking about a
       potential top 4 finish. You don't become a bad team overnight.
       My take on it, is that Quins have been found out. The Quins
       style of play, that the club pride themselves on, isn't there
       because some of the players coming in can't play it because they
       aren't good enough (Anderson is a prime example).
       Added to that, the England squad members look out on their feet
       (especially Marcus & Baxter). They all look like they need the
       entire summer off to rest.
       Lastly, the decision making from coaches is poor. Everyone could
       see Quins didn't replace Estherhuezen with a like for like style
       of player (not saying it's easy to find a player of his
       standard, but it's clear Marcus needs a crash ball guy at 12).
       If we can see it, why can't Wilson?
       Quins still have diamonds in the squad - Marcus, Northmore,
       Beard, Green, Baxter, Kenningham, Evans and Isgro.
       And there are young players with masses of potential also
       breaking through. But what the squad needs is a strong
       scrummaging TH (we have no platform to build set plays from) and
       a beast of a crash ball 12 (apparently, they grow on trees in
       South Africa!).
       #Post#: 137257--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: Harleking
       Date: April 27, 2025, 3:12 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Got to agree with all of the above points re recruitment.
       Obviously you need a squad but we seem to have an excessive
       number of players hanging around who aren't premiership quality
       and are old enough that realistically they almost certainly
       never to be (gjaltema, Hyde, Anderson, white etc) which just
       seems pointless.
       Surely a better use of the cap is to have a smaller number of
       quality players and rely on academy players who have the
       potential, even if must wont actually get there, to get to the
       top level to cover in an emergency. Having, for example, a 5th
       choice senior hooker who  plays 1 game every few seasons isn't
       really a great use of money when you can get an injury
       replacement to cover a genuine emergency, which usually won't
       occur anyway.
       #Post#: 137261--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: Banstead Quin
       Date: April 27, 2025, 3:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Oh MQ, you have flashes of clever, insightful moments littered
       with moments of bats ar*e crazy. Dombrandt a flat track bully,
       please.
       On the radio, in the pub and at work I get to hear about
       Wendyball fans and their gripes about managers and the <insert
       club name here> Way and this is all starting to sound a bit like
       that. For me the reality of what is going on is a mixture of all
       of the above points. Players not happy but don’t seem to be able
       to change it themselves. Coaches keep trying to tweak things but
       losing the essence of what makes us good and having a 3 year
       plan in a league where losing 5 matches pretty much rules you
       out. Replacements not as good as what we’ve lost and players out
       of position. The talent not being able to consistently pull
       rabbits out of hats. Defence being optional for too long in
       games.
       The easiest/cheapest option is always the HC but, as stated
       above by others, we cannot be blind to the fact that the much
       lauded Bomb & Snapper have overseen more decline than success in
       their tenure and great performances against Bordeaux and
       Toulouse aside, we are miles away from the heroics, of
       Bristanbul and belief isn’t enough anymore.
       We, as fans, want to see open, fast ball in hand attack but
       cannot be blind to the defensive frailties so have to accept
       that time needs to be spent there if we want to compete.
       Sentimentality is also a big issue and there aren’t enough
       players showing 8/10 plus regularly enough so bringing in some
       quality competition in key positions can’t hurt (3, 12, 15) or
       adapt the game plan to cope with not having that quality.
       None of this excuses Titi or Northmore at 12, that is all on the
       coaches.
       #Post#: 137265--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: T-Bone
       Date: April 27, 2025, 5:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I find this 3 year plan stuff infuriating. There are plenty of
       examples of coaches coming in and turning things around quickly.
       #Post#: 137266--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn’t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: DOK
       Date: April 27, 2025, 5:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This made me smile
       [quote=Danny Wilson]“Cam is ok. He’s back on his feet but was
       out for a while. It was a nasty one and he will be out for a
       period of time.”
       Harlequins will also be hoping Marcus Smith shrugs off an injury
       that forced him off the field and Wilson said: “It’s his ankle.
       We don’t know how bad at the moment but he showed his toughness
       by digging in as he always does. Unfortunately it got worse and
       at the end he was struggling to be able to execute and will have
       a scan.
       “It was a bit of a perfect storm, when you are struggling with
       injuries before the game and you go and get yellows and reds and
       further injuries it can lead to a scoreboard getting away from
       you and that is what happened today.
       But we can still mathematically get top four.”[/quote]
       #Post#: 137296--------------------------------------------------
       Re: This isn&#8217;t the coaching, this playing group are done
   DIR By: The Kid
       Date: April 27, 2025, 1:44 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: T-Bone link ---
       >
       > I find this 3 year plan stuff infuriating. There are plenty of
       examples of coaches coming in and turning things around quickly.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Completely agree with this. Bath got properly smashed by
       Gloucester 64-0 at the end of the 21/22 season and made the
       final two years later. Heck, the team that won the title in 2021
       needed half a season to turn it around.
       One of my friends follows a non-league football team who, he
       jokes, are on their 58th 3 year plan trying to make it into the
       football league. The right appointment and right recruitment
       will mean moving faster, and breaking things that need breaking
       / fixing what needs fixing. We cannot end up in a cycle of three
       year plans.
       We are on our third head coach since 2021. We have to get the
       next one right, and follow it with the recruitment of young,
       hungry players to fit whatever philosophy the new head coach
       wants, assuming we do indeed get one. Maybe a pasting in a less
       than half-full HQ in two weeks will land the message, if it
       hasn't hit already.
       On the topic of this thread, I don't think the playing group are
       done at all; there's a good core there. What is needed are some
       fresh ideas, and a bit of a cultural reset. The rest of the
       league plays in our image, and we are turning in circles trying
       to go about things a different way. Super frustrating for the
       players, for sure.
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