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#Post#: 135284--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: KiltedQuin
Date: March 18, 2025, 9:36 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> I’m almost certain I could post the sky is blue though and
have it challenged
>
--- End Quote ---
I’ve just looked out the window and the sky is indeed blue
today. You can mark this down as an occasion when someone has
agreed with you wholeheartedly!
#Post#: 135285--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: March 18, 2025, 9:55 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Fully agree that a win is not necessarily enjoyable. It can be
perfunctory (e.g. Chile).
>
> But by the same token, can a loss not be exciting and
therefore enjoyable? Would the NZ AI game have been better if
Ford's kick went over? Yeah probably but the width of the post
doesn't suck all the enjoyment out of the previous 78 (??)
minutes, does it?
>
--- End Quote ---
Oh, I'd definitely agree that a win isn't always enjoyable.
Often it's just a relief that the game's over and we got a
result.
Re. the NZ game, I'm not sure I particularly enjoyed it. It was
good to be close as well as unexpected but I was quite gutted
that we lost given two fairly reasonable opportunities to win. I
don't think it would have convinced me that everything was ok,
though!
#Post#: 135287--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: never sleep
Date: March 18, 2025, 10:33 am
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I think that you could stopped at this point -
--- Quote from: Brown Bottle link ---
>
> Often it's just a relief that the game's over and we got a
result.
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Fully agree that a win is not necessarily enjoyable. It can be
perfunctory (e.g. Chile).
>
> But by the same token, can a loss not be exciting and
therefore enjoyable? Would the NZ AI game have been better if
Ford's kick went over? Yeah probably but the width of the post
doesn't suck all the enjoyment out of the previous 78 (??)
minutes, does it?
>
--- End Quote ---
I really enjoyed the England vs Fiji game last year. Although we
lost, watching the Fiji fan's reaction was wonderful. A really
enjoyable day at the rugbys.
#Post#: 135300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: Saintquin
Date: March 18, 2025, 1:40 pm
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Think Saturday showed how bad Wales are rather than how good
England were!
#Post#: 135303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 18, 2025, 2:27 pm
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--- Quote from: Saintquin link ---
>
> Think Saturday showed how bad Wales are rather than how good
England were!
>
--- End Quote ---
To some extent, yes - but after being humped by France (who had
a smaller winning margin at home than England did away), Wales
lost by 7 points to Italy, 9 points to Ireland and 6 points to
Scotland.
#Post#: 135319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: Quinky
Date: March 18, 2025, 5:24 pm
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Had to laugh at this. Back amongst the heavyweights! 😂
#Post#: 135328--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: March 19, 2025, 4:41 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Claiming that England are "absolutely nowhere near" teams that
we've recently beaten or lost (albeit repeatedly) to by less
than a score is objectively nonsense. South Africa there's a
little more of a case for, but even there England were leading
going into the last quarter.
>
> Have they consistently beaten those teams in the recent past?
No. Are they competitive with them? Yes.
>
--- End Quote ---
Recently beating teams doesn't mean any given team is the same
level. Being competitive isn't the same thing. If the current
England team played SA, France or NZ 10x in a row, they'd
probably lose around 8 of them. Maybe 9 v SA. They're still
miles off where those teams are.
#Post#: 135329--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: March 19, 2025, 4:45 am
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--- Quote from: A222Quin link ---
>
> I think it's a bit overboard yes... Typical press hype and I
think the Autumn will be a true barometer of whether
improvements have been made.
>
> I get what you're saying about the 1 point games against
France and Scotland but neither of those things happened.
Russell is flaky - always has been, one of the many reasons why
Scotland aren't as good as the noise that comes out of the
Scotland camp makes them out to be. France would have won a
World Cup and more 6 nations if they didn't have those very
frequent games where they are just old style France -
incompetent for a game and world beaters the next.
>
> Ford makes that kick against NZ back in November the narrative
about England, rightly or wrongly is almost certainly different
coming into the 6 nations... So many of the top level games are
decided by 1 score of less and England now seem to be finding a
way to come out on the right side of it with greater frequency.
I think there's also a fair amount of relief that England went
to Wales actually put a Welsh side away properly rather than
timidly limping into town. So yeah, the press is overboard
definitely but I think there's grounds for optimism now that
there wasn't back in the Autumn certainly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Certainly grounds for optimism but a much bigger gap to bridge
than is made out, I think.
Russell IS flaky but it's not really about him, anyone could
have been kicking it. France recently have been more often that
not world beaters and I'd argue they weren't actually too bad
against England. It wasn't an overall bad performance by them I
suppose but more down to 3 dropped final passes.
#Post#: 135384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 19, 2025, 3:14 pm
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It wasn't just the final passes - they were making ridiculous
mistakes and huge numbers of unforced errors even before you
count those particular dropped balls. Ludicrous stuff.
#Post#: 135389--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: March 19, 2025, 4:10 pm
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...and yet with just one or two undropped passes they still
would have been fairly comfortable winners
Heavyweights, eh?!
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