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#Post#: 135227--------------------------------------------------
Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: DOK
Date: March 17, 2025, 9:06 pm
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the reality is that England have finally found a true sense of
themselves
HTML https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/mick-cleary-england-are-back-among-the-heavyweights/
#Post#: 135231--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: March 18, 2025, 3:47 am
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Watching the Wales game was probably the first time in a long
time I've enjoyed watching England, with a complete performance
in all areas.
Its also important not to get carried away, but if we can take
that level of performance away doing the double over the Pumas,
it will somewhat rebuild some of the discontent the RFU have had
with their approach.
#Post#: 135234--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: March 18, 2025, 4:05 am
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Sweeney must go!
#Post#: 135243--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: QuincyJones
Date: March 18, 2025, 5:25 am
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Not buying this narrative at all.
If France had turned up and Russell had made his last kick,
England would have finished 4th or 5th.
Still absolutely nowhere near SA, France or NZ.
#Post#: 135246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: carlgibbs13
Date: March 18, 2025, 5:56 am
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Possibly.. Very lucky in the first 3 games, but rent England due
a bit of luck?
Against Italy and Wales, they played very well. Maybe the
Borthwick era is coming to life?
#Post#: 135248--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 18, 2025, 5:59 am
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--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> Watching the Wales game was probably the first time in a long
time I've enjoyed watching England, with a complete performance
in all areas.
>
> Its also important not to get carried away, but if we can take
that level of performance away doing the double over the Pumas,
it will somewhat rebuild some of the discontent the RFU have had
with their approach.
>
--- End Quote ---
Without being that guy, can you define "a long time" please?
From the Ireland game in 2024 until the Ireland game in 2025,
all the matches were to my mind exciting and with good play. The
results weren't what we wanted but the games were entertaining
(and therefore enjoyable to watch).
The Scotland games last year and this year were crap but Italy
2025 was decent.
#Post#: 135249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: A222Quin
Date: March 18, 2025, 6:13 am
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--- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
>
> Not buying this narrative at all.
>
> If France had turned up and Russell had made his last kick,
England would have finished 4th or 5th.
>
> Still absolutely nowhere near SA, France or NZ.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think it's a bit overboard yes... Typical press hype and I
think the Autumn will be a true barometer of whether
improvements have been made.
I get what you're saying about the 1 point games against France
and Scotland but neither of those things happened. Russell is
flaky - always has been, one of the many reasons why Scotland
aren't as good as the noise that comes out of the Scotland camp
makes them out to be. France would have won a World Cup and more
6 nations if they didn't have those very frequent games where
they are just old style France - incompetent for a game and
world beaters the next.
Ford makes that kick against NZ back in November the narrative
about England, rightly or wrongly is almost certainly different
coming into the 6 nations... So many of the top level games are
decided by 1 score of less and England now seem to be finding a
way to come out on the right side of it with greater frequency.
I think there's also a fair amount of relief that England went
to Wales actually put a Welsh side away properly rather than
timidly limping into town. So yeah, the press is overboard
definitely but I think there's grounds for optimism now that
there wasn't back in the Autumn certainly.
#Post#: 135254--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 18, 2025, 6:42 am
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--- Quote from: QuincyJones link ---
>
> Not buying this narrative at all.
>
> If France had turned up and Russell had made his last kick,
England would have finished 4th or 5th.
>
> Still absolutely nowhere near SA, France or NZ.
>
--- End Quote ---
Claiming that England are "absolutely nowhere near" teams that
we've recently beaten or lost (albeit repeatedly) to by less
than a score is objectively nonsense. South Africa there's a
little more of a case for, but even there England were leading
going into the last quarter.
Have they consistently beaten those teams in the recent past?
No. Are they competitive with them? Yes.
#Post#: 135257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: March 18, 2025, 7:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Without being that guy, can you define "a long time" please?
From the Ireland game in 2024 until the Ireland game in 2025,
all the matches were to my mind exciting and with good play. The
results weren't what we wanted but the games were entertaining
(and therefore enjoyable to watch).
>
> The Scotland games last year and this year were crap but Italy
2025 was decent.
>
--- End Quote ---
On a personal level for a complete performance probably 2019 WC
era. This was more in terms of a complete "looking in control"
aspect where im coming from. The AB games showed promise though
last summer
#Post#: 135261--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mick Cleary: 'England are back among the heavyweights.'
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 18, 2025, 7:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Without being that guy, can you define "a long time" please?
From the Ireland game in 2024 until the Ireland game in 2025,
all the matches were to my mind exciting and with good play. The
results weren't what we wanted but the games were entertaining
(and therefore enjoyable to watch).
>
> The Scotland games last year and this year were crap but Italy
2025 was decent.
>
--- End Quote ---
The first half of the French game was some of the most
incompetent rugby I've seen at this level, from both teams.
Entertaining in its awfulness I suppose.
We are also pretty negative against Ireland and it wasn't fun to
watch. Italy were awful but we were pretty good so that's fine.
Scotland was eye bleeding stuff.
Largely we've been kicking it away too much even in the
entertaining games, and paying the price. Until the 6N we had a
high risk medium reward defence, and an attacking strategy that
involved giving the ball to the opposition a hell of a lot. Not
a good combo. But exciting in some ways, I guess!
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