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#Post#: 133660--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: never sleep
Date: January 30, 2025, 9:30 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Close - Benson
>
--- End Quote ---
I know his friend - Hedges
#Post#: 133669--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 30, 2025, 1:58 pm
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Sorry I really wasn't trying to make this about George or even
a disagreement. My original comment was that there are 3 10s in
the squad.
>
> However, have I got this right? Are you suggesting that not
being part of this particular 23 is (in and of itself) evidence
that George is not as good as the Smiths?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, you said "hmm we'll see" after I said he wasn't pushing for
selection like the other two and wasn't currently at their
standard. We've seen that already this season, and now we've
seen it in selection, the thing I said he wasn't pushing for...
#Post#: 133672--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 30, 2025, 2:46 pm
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> No, you said "hmm we'll see" after I said he wasn't pushing
for selection like the other two and wasn't currently at their
standard. We've seen that already this season, and now we've
seen it in selection, the thing I said he wasn't pushing for...
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry Jams but not being selected isn’t the same as not being
considered.
Or are you suggesting that Beard is demonstrably not as good as
Slade? That Earl is a better 8 than Dombrandt or Willis?
#Post#: 133673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 30, 2025, 3:01 pm
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Sorry Jams but not being selected isn’t the same as not being
considered.
>
> Or are you suggesting that Beard is demonstrably not as good
as Slade? That Earl is a better 8 than Dombrandt or Willis?
>
--- End Quote ---
Okay. When you bolded the bit where I said he wasn't pushing for
selection and said "hmmm. We'll see." what was it you thought we
would see that might prove or disprove my assertion?
#Post#: 133674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 30, 2025, 3:21 pm
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Okay. When you bolded the bit where I said he wasn't pushing
for selection and said "hmmm. We'll see." what was it you
thought we would see that might prove or disprove my assertion?
>
--- End Quote ---
Honestly? I don’t think there was anything specific.
I guess my assumption is that anyone in camp is up for
selection. There will be surprises (Murley is potentially a
surprise given he is up against Sleightholme and has come from
nowhere internationally) but nobody is completely out of
contention.
I do get that you would have personally surprised (and probably
disappointed) if Ford had been selected. Others have argued that
a 98-capper is perhaps a better option for Dublin.
For the avoidance of doubt, I have no real opinion which
combination of 10s is the best bet. I guess that’s why I’m not a
coach.
#Post#: 133675--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: January 30, 2025, 3:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Honestly? I don’t think there was anything specific.
>
> I guess my assumption is that anyone in camp is up for
selection. There will be surprises (Murley is potentially a
surprise given he is up against Sleightholme and has come from
nowhere internationally) but nobody is completely out of
contention.
>
> I do get that you would have personally surprised (and
probably disappointed) if Ford had been selected. Others have
argued that a 98-capper is perhaps a better option for Dublin.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, I have no real opinion which
combination of 10s is the best bet. I guess that’s why I’m not a
coach.
>
--- End Quote ---
Okay. But you understand why I then said "qed" - we waited and
saw.
There was always a chance Borthwick might select him, but a) he
had a shocker of an autumn and ended it out of the match day
squad, b) his form this season is nowhere near the Smiths, and
c) all the talk from the camp was over which Smith would start.
I don't think his career is over but the hill he has to climb to
regain the shirt is looking pretty steep
#Post#: 133676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: Yareet
Date: January 30, 2025, 4:23 pm
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--- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
>
> Okay. But you understand why I then said "qed" - we waited and
saw.
>
> There was always a chance Borthwick might select him, but a)
he had a shocker of an autumn and ended it out of the match day
squad, b) his form this season is nowhere near the Smiths, and
c) all the talk from the camp was over which Smith would start.
>
> I don't think his career is over but the hill he has to climb
to regain the shirt is looking pretty steep
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the other point is I hadn’t realised we were talking
just about this match. My bad if that was clear.
Which is why not being selected for one game is perhaps less
conclusive.
#Post#: 133679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 31, 2025, 12:40 am
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Ford is going to be in consideration for England for as long as
he is playing internationally. But I think we’re past the point
where he’s an automatic pick for the 23.
Borthwick will have one eye on 2027, and will also have been
acutely aware of Ireland’s experience in sticking with Sexton
just a little too long and then not having an experienced
alternative. If it’s a question of who takes the bench slot, it
makes sense to err on the side of putting Fin Smith in, because
he is a much more significant part of England’s future and what
he most needs is experience.
As for Marcus, it’s clear from his individual stats that he can
do the job at international level, but it’s also clear from the
team’s results that England haven’t yet worked out how to put
together a team and game plan to get the most out of what he can
offer.
Borthwick seems willing to commit to trying to do that at this
point in the cycle; whether he can find a way to do it before
Fin is experienced enough to be the easier default option is a
different question.
#Post#: 133680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: Rocker
Date: January 31, 2025, 3:25 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> As for Marcus, it’s clear from his individual stats that he
can do the job at international level, but it’s also clear from
the team’s results that England haven’t yet worked out how to
put together a team and game plan to get the most out of what he
can offer.
>
> Borthwick seems willing to commit to trying to do that at this
point in the cycle; whether he can find a way to do it before
Fin is experienced enough to be the easier default option is a
different question.
>
--- End Quote ---
This is about the situation as I see it. England have not yet
found the best way of using Marcus. Finn is more conventional
and if he continues to play well for club and country and gain
experience the calls to replace Marcus with him are only going
to grow unless England work on a team/game plan for Marcus to be
used to his best.
#Post#: 133681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smith v Smith: no one does culture wars like English rugby
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: January 31, 2025, 3:43 am
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--- Quote from: Rocker link ---
>
> This is about the situation as I see it. England have not yet
found the best way of using Marcus. Finn is more conventional
and if he continues to play well for club and country and gain
experience the calls to replace Marcus with him are only going
to grow unless England work on a team/game plan for Marcus to be
used to his best.
>
--- End Quote ---
The problem is you need the players for that. You can't just cap
players because they play for Quins or might suit Marcus.
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