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#Post#: 132612--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: Camquin
Date: January 9, 2025, 11:35 am
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You could have a salary cap low enough to make the clubs solvent
- but you would have no overseas players, and the England stars
would be looking to move abroad for the money. And you would
almost certainly get into a vicious circle of reducing TV money.
Exeter have almost broken even this season, but at the expense
of having a very youthful team competing at the bottom of the
Premiership not the top, and selling off assets to reduce debt.
Bristol on the other hand made a loss of over £5m.
To a large extent, things would have been better if the sport
had embraced professionalism in 1895, as there would still be
one code and we would have strong clubs in the North - we would
have well established leagues and cup competitions. The unified
sport would be better able to compete against the Soccer
juggernaut.
We have got into exactly the position that the administrators
then did not want - clubs that are beholden to sugar daddies,
paying more than they can afford, and going bankrupt.
Rugby owners might be more involved and passionate than those in
the round ball game, but they still run out of money, or simply
die. And there is not a large pool of rich men looking to make
a large tax loss.
#Post#: 132614--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: fatgat
Date: January 9, 2025, 1:51 pm
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--- Quote from: Only Joe Quin link ---
>
> Surely the income from fat cat owners is missing from this
equation?
>
--- End Quote ---
Is there “income” from the owners? Or are they merely absorbing
the losses?
#Post#: 132615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: dinsdale
Date: January 9, 2025, 2:15 pm
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--- Quote from: fatgat link ---
>
> Is there “income” from the owners? Or are they merely
absorbing the losses?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's usually loans to the club that don't get repaid.
#Post#: 132616--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: championes
Date: January 9, 2025, 2:28 pm
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--- Quote from: NWKentQuin link ---
>
> Quins have about three time as many staff as they did ten
years ago and all I see is it being more and more difficult to
get actual customer service from an ever growing "team" with
meaningless job titles...
>
--- End Quote ---
They have fewer - which may be why you don’t get a response as
quickly as you’d like.
What are the job titles that are meaningless and why is team in
quote marks out of interest?
#Post#: 132617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 9, 2025, 2:52 pm
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--- Quote from: Only Joe Quin link ---
>
> Surely the income from fat cat owners is missing from this
equation?
>
--- End Quote ---
In accounting terms, it’s not income. It’s additional funding,
usually in the form of loans, which some owners have continued
to make every year for decades with limited signs that clubs
will be able to start paying down the debt at any appreciable
rate.
Dismissing them as “fat cats” downplays just how much the game
relies on them, and how patient many of them have been
#Post#: 132618--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: toast
Date: January 9, 2025, 4:13 pm
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> In accounting terms, it’s not income. It’s additional funding,
usually in the form of loans, which some owners have continued
to make every year for decades with limited signs that clubs
will be able to start paying down the debt at any appreciable
rate.
>
> Dismissing them as “fat cats” downplays just how much the game
relies on them, and how patient many of them have been
>
--- End Quote ---
Which surely means that once the benefactor(s) get bored with it
or pass on, the ‘benefits’ to the club cease and unless they
find another benefactor they go pop… AKA Worcester & Irish??
#Post#: 132619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: Only Joe Quin
Date: January 9, 2025, 4:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> In accounting terms, it’s not income. It’s additional funding,
usually in the form of loans, which some owners have continued
to make every year for decades with limited signs that clubs
will be able to start paying down the debt at any appreciable
rate.
>
> Dismissing them as “fat cats” downplays just how much the game
relies on them, and how patient many of them have been
>
--- End Quote ---
It’s money in the bank with zero chance of ever being repaid and
spent on running costs, whatever fiction the accountants choose
to present.
#Post#: 132620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: poorfour
Date: January 9, 2025, 4:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: toast link ---
>
>
> Which surely means that once the benefactor(s) get bored with
it or pass on, the ‘benefits’ to the club cease and unless they
find another benefactor they go pop… AKA Worcester & Irish??
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes; that’s the problem that several clubs have faced. It’s why
it’s so important that clubs find a way to grow their revenue
and turn a profit before too long.
In the case of Irish, the owner couldn’t or wouldn’t afford to
keep funding more debt and couldn’t find anyone to take it on.
In the case of Worcester it seems that the owners who took it on
from Cecil Duckworth actually dismantled a lot of the safeguards
he had put in to keep it viable and may never have had the
wherewithal to keep it going.
#Post#: 132621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: Domestos
Date: January 9, 2025, 4:45 pm
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Which brings us back to a statement of fact. Many/most
professional rugby clubs are not commercially viable.
What should they do to make themselves viable?
Serious question.
#Post#: 132624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs finances and other things
DIR By: Only Joe Quin
Date: January 10, 2025, 2:20 am
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--- Quote from: Domestos link ---
>
>
> What should they do to make themselves viable?
>
> Serious question.
>
--- End Quote ---
Maybe Tom Cruise would consider a comeback.
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