URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
  HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 130732--------------------------------------------------
       Sarries V Quins
   DIR By: Rob Buchanan
       Date: November 27, 2024, 9:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I watched the highlights of both the Premier Cup mens game and
       the PWR game both of which were played at Sarries StoneX Stadium
       last weekend. For both games the ground didn't even look half
       full! What can it be like for their players, and how do they
       make ends meet?
       #Post#: 130733--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Sarries V Quins
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: November 27, 2024, 9:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To be fair, Quins get lower attendances for PRC games and aren't
       yet filling a whole stand for PWR games - but Sarries have a
       smaller ground and IIRC bigger debts.
       My understanding is that Quins should be able to break even this
       year if Big Game and BSKO fill the Big Stoop, but it's not clear
       how Sarries (and most other clubs) can get to the same point.
       #Post#: 130738--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Sarries V Quins
   DIR By: Camquin
       Date: November 27, 2024, 10:37 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Most clubs survive because they have a wealthy backer who is
       willing to fund the losses - perhaps as a tax loss, as the money
       would otherwise go to HMG.  One of the things the administrator
       at LI had to work out was how much of a loss Powerday were able
       to claim in their accounts for that last season.
       Some have a vulture backer, who is hoping to make a profit on
       the land. Though as we know this can go pear shaped.
       #Post#: 130761--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Sarries V Quins
   DIR By: Fearless Fred
       Date: November 28, 2024, 2:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: poorfour link ---
       >
       > To be fair, Quins get lower attendances for PRC games and
       aren't yet filling a whole stand for PWR games - but Sarries
       have a smaller ground and IIRC bigger debts.
       >
       > My understanding is that Quins should be able to break even
       this year if Big Game and BSKO fill the Big Stoop, but it's not
       clear how Sarries (and most other clubs) can get to the same
       point.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I haven't tracked attendances recently, but from memory, when
       the StoneX had a 10,000 capacity, they struggled to fill that on
       a regular basis. Finding reliable attendances now is a lot
       harder, as Premiership Rugby no longer publish them, but with a
       capacity of 10.500 now, compared to our 14,812, even if they
       consistently sell out their ground (which I doubt), they will
       struggle to make an impact in their debts without the financial
       backers.
       #Post#: 130770--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Sarries V Quins
   DIR By: Grins
       Date: November 28, 2024, 5:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Important to remember that a lot of these “debts”, for most
       clubs, are owed to the shareholders. So they are essentially
       equity.  Press coverage of sports debt usually fails to
       understand this.
       #Post#: 130785--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Sarries V Quins
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: November 28, 2024, 6:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Grins link ---
       >
       > Important to remember that a lot of these “debts”, for most
       clubs, are owed to the shareholders. So they are essentially
       equity.  Press coverage of sports debt usually fails to
       understand this.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Quite. As long as the owner is prepared to back the club, they
       can be rolled forward. The issue comes when you have debts that
       aren't like that (such as COVID loans) or when an owner has had
       enough and tries to sell up, but can't offload the debt at a
       discount they cannot accept.
       Those have been the trigger for clubs going under. Sarries and
       Quins are both lucky to have patient, deep pocketed backers who
       seem to be in for the long haul... But the question for Sarries
       is whether they can see a route to an operating profit.
       We know that Quins can, and have been agonisingly close for
       several years only to be scuppered by factors outside their
       control.
       More broadly, it's been reported that viewership and attendances
       are both up this year, and that the Christmas games could see a
       record average attendance of over 30,000 (though a lot of that
       is down to Big Game, which would provide an average of 16,000
       across the 5 games if it sells out. That said, with Tigers as
       the hosts, the one ground that could add meaningfully to the
       average won't be in play, so I guess it is up to everyone else
       to sell out their stadia)
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 1