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#Post#: 10730--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: BedfordshireBoy
Date: November 19, 2018, 3:40 pm
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According to Paul Gustard there will be a clear out at the end
of the season and we will have a smaller squad. I have the
impression that he rates Lewis Boyce so not sure about the
rumours that he is off. Lasike and Semi were both brought in
cheaply to offer something different to the squad.
#Post#: 10742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: Quinofthestoneage
Date: November 20, 2018, 1:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think that some of the views expressed here suggest that there
is some misunderstanding about what it takes to actually gel a
squad into a unit of people who function in the optimum way.
I've said this before, but I would heartil recommend anyone who
has the time to listen to JBs interview with Ben Darwin, whose
main job is thinking about optimizing player performance. You
can hear it here;
HTML https://www.acast.com/therugbydungeon/ep-50bendarwin
For those who don't have the time to listen, the most salient
point he makes, in my opinion is how long, on average it takes a
player to be in a position, both mentally and physically to be
an effective squad member. He's looking at big datasets as
well, from across world rugby. The best examples of this in the
Prem I guess would be guys like Steenson, Dollman and Whitten at
Chiefs, who perform the way they do because they have been
allowed to stabilise their performances across a long period.
Consequently it just seems unreasonable to make any sort of
judgement on someone like Kunatani as he hasn't been around the
squad for 5 minutes and the Head coach (who has an idea of the
way he wants his squad to gel) hasn't been around much longer.
Anyway, I offer this as a longer view. Give the pod a listen if
you have a chance. It made me change the way I look at the
players here at Quins both as a fan and as someone interested in
qualitative data!
#Post#: 10751--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: November 20, 2018, 3:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I thought it was generally accepted that it takes 3 years to
build a squad. Pretty sure I heard Martin Johnson say it.
#Post#: 10769--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 20, 2018, 8:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout link ---
>
> I thought it was generally accepted that it takes 3 years to
build a squad. Pretty sure I heard Martin Johnson say it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Also John Kingston, but I don't think anyone really listened to
him...
But Ben Darwin's point is subtly different - his analysis of
players moving teams suggests that it takes 18 months or more
for them to fully integrate into a side and start performing at
the level they were at before they left, and longer for props in
particular because of the technical aspects of the setpiece
(everyone emphasises slightly different things, and you have to
learn to work with your fellow front rows).
It's hard for us to appreciate this when we're playing or
coaching at an amateur level and individual talent can often
overcome team cohesion, but at a professional level the margins
are even finer and cohesion counts for so much more.
To give two examples - player for player there weren't many in
the 2011-12 Quins team who were clearly better than the best of
their opponents. NEv. Maybe Robshaw. But we did have a lot of
cohesion and a team that started winning and learning to play
off each other effectively and it was enough.
More controversial, perhaps, but the All Blacks aren't that much
better than their opponents individually. It's their ability to
keep playing their system right to the end of games that usually
breaks down opponents in the end, even when they go behind. But
on Saturday they came up against a team who could match them
step for step in sticking to the game.
#Post#: 10778--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: InsertQuinsPunHere
Date: November 20, 2018, 1:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinofthestoneage link ---
>
> I think that some of the views expressed here suggest that
there is some misunderstanding about what it takes to actually
gel a squad into a unit of people who function in the optimum
way. I've said this before, but I would heartil recommend anyone
who has the time to listen to JBs interview with Ben Darwin,
whose main job is thinking about optimizing player performance.
You can hear it here;
>
>
HTML https://www.acast.com/therugbydungeon/ep-50bendarwin
>
> For those who don't have the time to listen, the most salient
point he makes, in my opinion is how long, on average it takes a
player to be in a position, both mentally and physically to be
an effective squad member. He's looking at big datasets as
well, from across world rugby. The best examples of this in the
Prem I guess would be guys like Steenson, Dollman and Whitten at
Chiefs, who perform the way they do because they have been
allowed to stabilise their performances across a long period.
Consequently it just seems unreasonable to make any sort of
judgement on someone like Kunatani as he hasn't been around the
squad for 5 minutes and the Head coach (who has an idea of the
way he wants his squad to gel) hasn't been around much longer.
> Anyway, I offer this as a longer view. Give the pod a listen
if you have a chance. It made me change the way I look at the
players here at Quins both as a fan and as someone interested in
qualitative data!
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you kind sir. I thoroughly enjoyed that listen. Lots of
genuine insight, backed up with decent data.
#Post#: 10780--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: NevsLeftBoot
Date: November 20, 2018, 2:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Jack Clifford made 20+ appearances in his first season and 20+
appearances in his second - he broke himself but still made 13
appearances in his third season - during this time he showed he
is a really good player and made his england debut - so yeah i
would say as a 25 year old who has made 70+ appearances for a
club, who lost a whole season to injury that he is well worth
investing in - and can't really be compared to Saili who has
missed two seasons of rugby (1 here and 1 at Munster).....
#Post#: 10784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: BedfordshireBoy
Date: November 20, 2018, 3:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinofthestoneage link ---
>
> I think that some of the views expressed here suggest that
there is some misunderstanding about what it takes to actually
gel a squad into a unit of people who function in the optimum
way. I've said this before, but I would heartil recommend anyone
who has the time to listen to JBs interview with Ben Darwin,
whose main job is thinking about optimizing player performance.
You can hear it here;
>
>
HTML https://www.acast.com/therugbydungeon/ep-50bendarwin
>
> For those who don't have the time to listen, the most salient
point he makes, in my opinion is how long, on average it takes a
player to be in a position, both mentally and physically to be
an effective squad member. He's looking at big datasets as
well, from across world rugby. The best examples of this in the
Prem I guess would be guys like Steenson, Dollman and Whitten at
Chiefs, who perform the way they do because they have been
allowed to stabilise their performances across a long period.
Consequently it just seems unreasonable to make any sort of
judgement on someone like Kunatani as he hasn't been around the
squad for 5 minutes and the Head coach (who has an idea of the
way he wants his squad to gel) hasn't been around much longer.
> Anyway, I offer this as a longer view. Give the pod a listen
if you have a chance. It made me change the way I look at the
players here at Quins both as a fan and as someone interested in
qualitative data!
>
--- End Quote ---
Interesting read, thanks.
#Post#: 10785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: November 20, 2018, 5:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t build a club sandwich around Clifford let alone a
club. Even barring the endless injuries, in the three years he’s
barely played - the game has moved on. Dunno if his skill set
even works in new way of using back 3.
Never get particularly exited to see him back in squad.
#Post#: 10786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 20, 2018, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Blucherquin link ---
>
> I wouldn’t build a club sandwich around Clifford let alone a
club. Even barring the endless injuries, in the three years he’s
barely played - the game has moved on. Dunno if his skill set
even works in new way of using back 3.
>
> Never get particularly exited to see him back in squad.
>
--- End Quote ---
Since Clifford doesn't play in the back 3, I doubt that will
have affected his game.
#Post#: 10789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rumours
DIR By: Blucherquin
Date: November 21, 2018, 2:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> Since Clifford doesn't play in the back 3, I doubt that will
have affected his game.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, that was a typo. Maybe he should though then he might live
up to his promise of four years ago which has all but vanished
sadly for him.
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