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#Post#: 130217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 14, 2024, 8:00 am
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Sinckler was a loss - but he has never been as good since his
move as he was for Quins. Arguably he left at just the right
time. Collier's got more Prem medals that Sinck has
Clifford's shoulder issues date back to his academy days - I can
remember COS saying in his breakthrough season at a Quinssa
event "If he stays fit, he will play for England. If he stays
fit, he will captain England".
Lynagh left as a condition of his international ambitions; not
much we could do there. Marchant left as a result of Eddie's
undermining of his international ambitions; not much we could do
there, either. Brown's departure was badly handled and he was
right and the club was wrong about how much he had left to
contribute, but it's not as if Green has done badly and is
probably a lot cheaper.
Tizard was targeted by Sarries as a replacement for Kruis; but
that left us with Hammond and Lamb. Likewise, Ibitoye was less
important to keep given Murley, Lynagh, Cleaves etc.
Every team has good Academy graduates that they lose; the
question for Quins is whether they are losing any who are
irreplaceable.
Losing Jibulu would be a blow, but he is not our only hooker and
the issue I suspect is that he's matured early. Losing Anyanwu I
think is in some ways worse because he's currently our only
senior player who looks comfortable at 12. But by and large
Quins have hung on to the players they really need
#Post#: 130220--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: FishQuin
Date: November 14, 2024, 8:15 am
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I don’t disagree with you, poorfour, any my comment wasn't meant
as an analysis of the rights or wrongs on any of those
decisions. I was just commenting on Yareet’s academy 23 post
where he said our academy production has been patchy.
Also, I had somehow totally forgotten about Collier, let’s add
him to that list I provided. He and Sink as a 1-2 at tighthead
is pretty impressive from an academy production perspective.
#Post#: 130225--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: poorfour
Date: November 14, 2024, 8:32 am
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Fair enough. Being a bit provocative, but from the club's
perspective I think that they want a balance between
internationals and players who are just below international
level. We've had a good production line of players who fit that
bill.
#Post#: 130227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 14, 2024, 9:03 am
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--- Quote from: FishQuin link ---
>
> Yareet, I’m struggling to follow what you’re responding to, so
maybe this is irrelevant, but if we’re talking about developing
academy talent, I think it’s worth considering those who have
moved on? Sinckler, Clifford, Tizard, Marchant, Lynagh and
(maybe) Brown would be a few Quins academy products who would
significantly strengthen that 23 you’ve outlined.
Injury/retention being the issue there, not the ability to bring
players through from the academy.
>
>
> Ibitoye is doing okay at Bristol right now too.
>
--- End Quote ---
Nothing broader than an outsider's counter perspective that
perhaps some on this board have put too much faith put in the
ability to replace with academy talent.
For whatever reason, it seems that Quins have struggled
historically to either develop players in certain positions (9
and 15 being the obvious examples) or to hold on to them (3).
The current squad seems very reliant on imports.
Every club loses academy products. I'd love to still have Ashman
and Sam James to strengthen the Sale all-academy 23!
#Post#: 130232--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: FishQuin
Date: November 14, 2024, 10:34 am
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Fair enough, I can’t argue against the fact that we are
currently heavily reliant on imports.
However, I don’t think the faith in our academy is misplaced. I
think our academy has produced very well historically, and I
think that if we are concerned with replacing talent via the
academy, then looking at our academy production is a more
reliable metric than academy products who are still at the club.
Seems to me that as a Quins fan I should have fairly good faith
that we will have academy talent that can replace the outgoings.
I just shouldn’t be confident we can hold on to that academy
talent long term.
#Post#: 130235--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: FatQuin
Date: November 14, 2024, 11:13 am
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Joseph rumoured off to Glaws now too. Fissler says.
#Post#: 130237--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: boroughquin
Date: November 14, 2024, 11:21 am
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--- Quote from: FatQuin link ---
>
> Joseph rumoured off to Glaws now too. Fissler says.
>
--- End Quote ---
We must have something seriously big cooking, especially in the
centres, if all of these outgoings are to be believed.
I do worry we are putting too much of our hopes on Northmore A)
being real international quality consistently B) able to play 12
or 13 seamlessly.
Please don't misinterpret the above about LN, I think he's a
great player but has had injury issues and not set the world
alight at 12.
#Post#: 130238--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: West Stand Quin
Date: November 14, 2024, 11:27 am
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Joseph is behind Beard and Northmore so he needs to move for
game time. Too good to be a 3rd choice
#Post#: 130239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: Yareet
Date: November 14, 2024, 11:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FishQuin link ---
>
> Fair enough, I can’t argue against the fact that we are
currently heavily reliant on imports.
>
> However, I don’t think the faith in our academy is misplaced.
I think our academy has produced very well historically, and I
think that if we are concerned with replacing talent via the
academy, then looking at our academy production is a more
reliable metric than academy products who are still at the club.
>
> Seems to me that as a Quins fan I should have fairly good
faith that we will have academy talent that can replace the
outgoings. I just shouldn’t be confident we can hold on to that
academy talent long term.
>
--- End Quote ---
But if the role of the academy is to produce the next generation
of players, why aren't Quins holding on to them? These should be
the heart and soul of your club going forward.
From experience, the clubs who habitually lose their best
academy products have typically been towards the bottom of the
table (and I include Sale in that in the period between
Saint-Andre and Simon Orange). If you're constantly needing the
next cab off the rank, success is hard.
Plus, it may be my misconception but I have a view of Quins as a
club who have been largely successful at holding onto their key
young talent. The 23 for the 2012 final had a dozen (?) academy
products who all stayed with Quins either until retirement or
for around another decade.
Something has changed significantly if there is now such a
reliance on imports.
#Post#: 130252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squad Future
DIR By: FishQuin
Date: November 14, 2024, 2:59 pm
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> But if the role of the academy is to produce the next
generation of players, why aren't Quins holding on to them?
These should be the heart and soul of your club going forward…
>
--- End Quote ---
Oh, I completely agree, it’s not ideal. I would love to still
have the likes of Collier and Marchant turning out for Quins. My
comment was purely intended to highlight that the Quins academy
has done a pretty decent job of producing talent in recent
history.
Right now, it’s a little concerning to see all the rumours of
players leaving. But it’s only November. There’s a lot to still
happen. Let’s see where we end up.
(And as I write “it’s only November” I think, isn’t there some
sort of rule that says premiership clubs can’t approach players
until January? Or did I dream that?)
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