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#Post#: 128335--------------------------------------------------
O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: October 3, 2024, 3:40 am
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With only pockets of fans attending matches in Cape Town and
Vancouver, the complaints of players and coaches are being
suppressed
Fiona Tomas
02 October 2024 7:05pm
Fiona Tomas
The Rugby Football Union has allegedly been silenced by World
Rugby as concerns grow over poor crowds and dwindling ticket
sales at WXV.
Pitiful attendances have so far marred the global women’s rugby
competition, which has returned for its second year, raising
questions over how well the tournament has been marketed and
whether it is viable in its current format
A few hundred fans watched England’s 61-21 opening-round victory
against the USA at BC Place’s 54,500-seater stadium in
Vancouver. Ahead of the match, John Mitchell, the Red Roses head
coach, appeared to vent his frustration at the low ticket sales
for the tournament but would not be drawn on the issue in his
side’s post-match press conference.
Multiple sources have since confirmed to Telegraph Sport that
England players and staff have been advised by rugby’s global
governing body not to talk about the issue publicly. World Rugby
denied that such conversations with the RFU took place when
approached by Telegraph Sport.
A far cry from Twickenham
The Red Roses are becoming increasingly accustomed to playing in
front of bumper crowds, having pulled in significant attendances
on each of the last three occasions they have played at
Twickenham.
They secured a 24-12 win over New Zealand in front of 41,523 at
the home of English rugby last month and Mitchell has previously
spoken of his desire to “fill all the little green seats at the
top” of the stadium at next year’s home World Cup.
“I think we have a responsibility to make sure we are playing in
front of crowds,” he said in the build-up to his side’s WXV
opener last week. “The Red Roses don’t deserve to play in front
of non-crowds because they present a good product.”
When asked, however, about the near-empty stadium after his
side’s win over the USA, Mitchell responded: “It’s not my job to
speak about that.”
Players disenchanted
Telegraph Sport understands players are deeply unenthused about
having to take to the field inside cavernous stadiums. “It’s not
the numbers we want as players,” said Keira Bevan, the Wales
scrum-half, following her side’s 37-5 defeat to the Wallaroos,
which was watched by just 291 fans in Cape Town’s
55,000-capacity DHL Stadium.
While a record-breaking 55,000 tickets have already been sold
for next year’s women’s showpiece, World Rugby has not shared
any figures around ticket sales for WXV. It was later claimed
around 4,000 were snapped up for the opening day’s action at BC
Place, which featured a triple header and saw Ireland, ranked
sixth in the world, stun world champions New Zealand with a
29-27 victory. As the local organising committee of WXV1, which
features the world’s top-ranked teams, Rugby Canada is
responsible for all ticket sales and marketing.
World Rugby launched WXV last year in a bid to increase playing
opportunities between Test nations and ultimately close the
performance gap between the top-ranked and lower-ranked nations
in the women’s game to make World Cups more competitive.
The body has already signalled the tournament’s current format
will be reviewed after next year’s World Cup, with Sally Horrox,
the organisation’s director of women’s rugby, acknowledging
there is a “need for greater certainty and simplicity” in how
the competition is run.
“We are confident the model will evolve and change,” said
Horrox. “We’ve got some really strong options on the table that
have really strong support from the unions. We’re going to
debrief after this edition of WXV and we’ll make some
announcements early next year.”
#Post#: 128336--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: October 3, 2024, 4:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
hhhmmmm, I think we need to wait to see how many turn up for
non-England games here next year before we start bitching about
others. Accepting the Celt's will have good turnouts I can't see
the other nations filling stadiums either.
Even in the smaller stadiums that are being used. NZ attendances
were poor as well at the last one. The final wasn't even sold
out and they were in it.
#Post#: 128343--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 3, 2024, 6:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
> hhhmmmm, I think we need to wait to see how many turn up for
non-England games here next year before we start bitching about
others. Accepting the Celt's will have good turnouts I can't see
the other nations filling stadiums either.
>
> Even in the smaller stadiums that are being used. NZ
attendances were poor as well at the last one. The final wasn't
even sold out and they were in it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Culturally it's quite different - NZ are a fair way behind
England in promoting women's rugby.
The RWC and WR are both very set on promoting RWC 2025. So far,
only the opening match and Final have gone on pre-sale, but
55,000 tickets (including all those available for the final)
have been sold - so it is likely already ahead of the 42,579
sold for the RWC 2021 Final.
We mostly seem to have attendance figures for England games, but
those have been good: over 41,000 tickets for the Eng v NZ warm
up game last month, and 7,500 for Eng v France at Kingsholm, and
England's home 6 Nations matches drew 19,705 in Bristol (73% of
capacity), 7,775 (99.7%) in Edinburgh, 48,778 in Twickenham
(59%). Wales v Italy drew 10,000 (albeit rattling around in the
Principality Stadium) and from memory Scotland had several
sell-outs
#Post#: 128518--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: ChiddQuin
Date: October 7, 2024, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My daughter has bought tickets for herself, her brother and I
for the final next year and we are waiting for the other rounds
to go on sale so we can get more, especially for the West
country venues. Although it's very different from the men's game
it is just as exciting to watch (and cheaper!).
#Post#: 128524--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: Bod
Date: October 7, 2024, 3:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There are issues
I won't state the bleedin obvious, especially as someone who was
previously part of the Bristol Women's Rugby management team
#Post#: 128532--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: October 8, 2024, 4:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bod link ---
>
> There are issues
> I won't state the bleedin obvious, especially as someone who
was previously part of the Bristol Women's Rugby management team
>
--- End Quote ---
Phew!
#Post#: 128538--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 8, 2024, 8:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bod link ---
>
> There are issues
> I won't state the bleedin obvious, especially as someone who
was previously part of the Bristol Women's Rugby management team
>
--- End Quote ---
It'd be interesting to get your perspective on whether those
issues are fixable - not least because Ms Poorfour Maj is quite
keen on becoming a pro rugby player and so the question of
whether the game can become financially sustainable is more than
academic in the Poorfour household.
The women's game is still a good way from both sustainabilty and
being able to pay its players properly (as the recent "powered
differently" campaign highlighted - even key players for the PWR
sides have a day job on top of their rugby), but as far as I can
see it's heading in the right direction, albeit from a low base.
Attendance for women's games is growing, at least when you
compare like for like fixtures. WXV is poorly attended, but it's
being played in a market that's seen as one for the future. The
Stoop is still only using a single stand for PWR games but it
feels fuller this season than it did last season.
TV coverage has improved dramatically even in the past 12
months, and the number of schools that support girls' rugby has
increased dramatically over the last 3-4 years. It's too early
to tell whether the new regional player pathways will work well,
though some fine tuning is likely to be needed.
A lot depends on RWC 2025; it's potentially an accelerator for
the game globally but especially in England. If it's seen as a
success and draws good viewership, then the fact that people can
then go to a PWR club and see many of the best internationals
playing for them should boost crowds significantly.
My view is that rugby as a whole knows that it can't afford to
let the women's game fail. It's the only easily scalable source
of additional revenue for clubs, and I think the RFU has shown
that it has learned from some of the lessons of men's
professionlism. Women's rugby has alreayd agreed central
contracts, a franchise for clubs and (though it's yet to kick
in) revenue sharing for the players - things that the men's game
would have benefited from ages ago.
There are problems - and it would be good to know about them
from an insider - but it looks to me that they are being
approached in a fairly sensible way with a good chance of
success.
#Post#: 128566--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: fromrichmond
Date: October 9, 2024, 8:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It is not a question of not being able to allow womens game to
fail.
It is purley about the level of interest from the public
Mens rugby is struggling to gain interest so I see little hope
for the female game
I think most people have only so much time they can devote to
sport each weekend
I think many are like me in that I have seen a few womens games
but would not go out of my way to do so and having seen Qunins
mens team that is enough for the week
If you look at womens football which is getting enourmous
coverage the odd game gets a good crownd with cheap tickets but
for instance Spurs who are sold out at 60k plus every weekend
and have what they anticiapte to be a 15 year wait for a season
ticket average about 500 souls for a womens home game
#Post#: 128568--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: never sleep
Date: October 9, 2024, 9:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: fromrichmond link ---
>
> It is not a question of not being able to allow womens game to
fail.
> It is purley about the level of interest from the public
> Mens rugby is struggling to gain interest so I see little hope
for the female game
> I think most people have only so much time they can devote to
sport each weekend
> I think many are like me in that I have seen a few womens
games but would not go out of my way to do so and having seen
Qunins mens team that is enough for the week
> If you look at womens football which is getting enourmous
coverage the odd game gets a good crownd with cheap tickets but
for instance Spurs who are sold out at 60k plus every weekend
and have what they anticiapte to be a 15 year wait for a season
ticket average about 500 souls for a womens home game
>
--- End Quote ---
Although this is true, I wonder how many people are needed to
make the women's game successful.
I went to the game last Saturday and have a ticket for next
Saturday's game.
Last Saturday I had the choice between Quins Women v Chiefs and
Richmond vs Sale FC. I chose the Quins game. (In hindsight it
may have been a mistake as apparently the Richmond game was
extremely entertaining.)
But - from looking at the crowd - I would say that Quins Women
gets a far better attendance than Richmond does.
Also, I would say that generally, there is a different
demographic. I suspect that many of the people on Saturday do
not attend Quins men's matches.
And - I did to the the Quinformation desk. They had a lot of
membership packs to give out for members who had bought the
"women's membership".
My view is that the attendance at women's games is going up and
it looks a success (but still has some way to go.)
#Post#: 128569--------------------------------------------------
Re: O/T England ‘silenced’ by World Rugby over highlighting poor
crowds at women’s WXV
DIR By: poorfour
Date: October 9, 2024, 9:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: fromrichmond link ---
>
> It is not a question of not being able to allow womens game to
fail.
> It is purley about the level of interest from the public
> Mens rugby is struggling to gain interest so I see little hope
for the female game
> I think most people have only so much time they can devote to
sport each weekend
> I think many are like me in that I have seen a few womens
games but would not go out of my way to do so and having seen
Qunins mens team that is enough for the week
> If you look at womens football which is getting enourmous
coverage the odd game gets a good crownd with cheap tickets but
for instance Spurs who are sold out at 60k plus every weekend
and have what they anticiapte to be a 15 year wait for a season
ticket average about 500 souls for a womens home game
>
--- End Quote ---
The aim is not to attract all the same people to men's and
women's games - the aim is to attract new fans, and that largely
seems to be happening.
Women's rugby is starting from a very low base, and it's
starting about 10 years later than women's soccer, 25 years
later than men's rugby and about 120 years later than soccer
(and about 40 years later than tv money began to change the
economics of the game). But it is growing rapidly and as never
sleep says, they don't necessarily need the same attendances or
ticket prices as the men to be successful and sustainable.
The value of women's rugby to the game as a whole is that the
cost base is very different from the men's game. The PWR clubs
effectively use the men's teams' stadia on days when they would
not be used, they can share management, marketing and
merchandise teams. The additional cost is mostly in the players
and coaches, and player salaries are starting from a very low
base.
What they need to do is to get to a level of support where the
ticket, tv, f&b and merchandising revenue covers the cost of the
team and contributes a surplus to the overall funds of the club.
Back of an envelope, I'd guess that's when they're consistently
getting a crowd of about 3,000 - though the ultimate aim will be
to increase attendance and ticket prices to the point where the
women's squad can be fully professional.
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