DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
ComeAllWithin (Harlequins Rugby)
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: ComeAllWithin Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 126608--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: Quinston Churchill
Date: July 29, 2024, 2:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I’m looking forward to having Kenningham back to fitness. Given
how long he’s been out, it’s almost like having a new signing.
Similar for Murley, Lamb and David. Those three all make a big
difference to our first XV.
Cleaves or Zheng (or preferably both) having a breakthrough
season would be very timely and I agree with others that Jibulu
looks set to do the same.
#Post#: 126612--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: July 29, 2024, 4:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Undroppables (when fit) - Tyrone, Marcus, Murley. Even though
we have strength in all positions, those three can turn games.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'd add Dombrandt to that list. For us he's irreplaceable.
#Post#: 126614--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 29, 2024, 4:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> I'd add Dombrandt to that list. For us he's irreplaceable.
>
--- End Quote ---
The question is going to be how we perm three from Dommers,
Kenners, CCSers and Evansers. Nice problem to have. Of those,
I'd say Evans is probably the least droppable. He's in that
great category of being achingly close to international
standard, where he puts in great performances for Quins week in
week out, but doesn't get the call ups.
I can see Dombrandt drifting into that category given the rise
of CCS and Earl. Kenningham it's hard to tell. There's a long
queue of players ahead of him but if he's fully fit and getting
game time he's got a skill set that could become hard to ignore
because it ticks so many boxes.
#Post#: 126615--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: July 29, 2024, 5:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> The question is going to be how we perm three from Dommers,
Kenners, CCSers and Evansers. Nice problem to have. Of those,
I'd say Evans is probably the least droppable. He's in that
great category of being achingly close to international
standard, where he puts in great performances for Quins week in
week out, but doesn't get the call ups.
>
--- End Quote ---
Interesting. I absolutely love WEv and what he gives us, but in
terms of squad depth now (assuming all players are fully fit and
available), I would deem him to be the one where the next man up
in his position (Kenningham) provides the least drop in quality.
For me, Dommers (in terms of what he gives Quins), is a key man.
The viable replacements for him are: Chisholm, CCS (more tested
at 6 of late) and Lawday - and none of these, in my view, give
us the same cocktail of smart go-forward from the base, general
leadership, game-reading/nous, breakdown skills and ability to
grab a game by the scruff of the neck as he does.
CCS is fast becoming a nailed-on starter but I wouldn't say he
has "key man" status just yet - you could throw either Chisholm,
Kenningham, or even a Lamb/Lewies 6 in instead and sure, you
might compromise on those raw power/moments of brilliance, but
you can get by...
I guess the question is how Kenningham now, having returned to
fitness, compares to the Kenningham of 2 seasons ago. If he's
the same player he was then, 7 is the shirt with a real battle
brewing. I absolutely agree that WEv gives us something truly
unique and there's no one who wouldn't hand him the 7 shirt for
game 1 - but he also has the best backup, on paper.
#Post#: 126617--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: thatchapcarnell
Date: July 29, 2024, 6:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
>
> Lewies and Launchbury probably would be my choices at lock.
The lineout seems to work a lot better, but Hammond is no poor
replacement.
>
> Lamb and Hammond would do a good job as a pair, with Herbst in
contention anyway.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I think this is the most depth we've had at second row for a
while - to the point it is genuinely difficult to pick a
starting 4/5 when all options are fully fit.
Hammond and Lamb offer something very different to Launchbury
and Lewies. Far more athletic and mobile around the pitch (Lamb
also covers 6). Herbst doesn't offer the same lineout option but
is a proper enforcer, grunt in the scrum and is excellent at
disrupting opposition mauls.
This may well be a horses-for-courses selection - not only on
fitness but on opposition too. Do we need real tight-five power
or do we want all-court athleticism? Be nice to have our own
"bomb squad" coming off the bench with Marler, Kerrod, Walker,
Launchbury and Herbst demolishing scrums in the final 30mins of
games.
#Post#: 126618--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: poorfour
Date: July 29, 2024, 8:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> Interesting. I absolutely love WEv and what he gives us, but
in terms of squad depth now (assuming all players are fully fit
and available), I would deem him to be the one where the next
man up in his position (Kenningham) provides the least drop in
quality.
>
> For me, Dommers (in terms of what he gives Quins), is a key
man. The viable replacements for him are: Chisholm, CCS (more
tested at 6 of late) and Lawday - and none of these, in my view,
give us the same cocktail of smart go-forward from the base,
general leadership, game-reading/nous, breakdown skills and
ability to grab a game by the scruff of the neck as he does.
>
> CCS is fast becoming a nailed-on starter but I wouldn't say he
has "key man" status just yet - you could throw either Chisholm,
Kenningham, or even a Lamb/Lewies 6 in instead and sure, you
might compromise on those raw power/moments of brilliance, but
you can get by...
>
> I guess the question is how Kenningham now, having returned to
fitness, compares to the Kenningham of 2 seasons ago. If he's
the same player he was then, 7 is the shirt with a real battle
brewing. I absolutely agree that WEv gives us something truly
unique and there's no one who wouldn't hand him the 7 shirt for
game 1 - but he also has the best backup, on paper.
>
--- End Quote ---
A fair argument, and a nice problem to have. The question for me
is whether the bulk that Kenningham seems to have added just
builds on his natural game or changes it. If he's lost none of
his engine, pace or breakdown skills but added carrying, then he
becomes an option at 6, 7 or in a pinch 8, and the ability to
swap for WEv or CCS (or have CCS at 8 and swap for Dommers)
offers some real ability to change up the back row in a number
of different ways.
#Post#: 126620--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: July 29, 2024, 9:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Not very often we can have these 'nice problems' to debate.
We'll have to factor in Europe and Internationals where will
need to mix things up. Are we stacked enough in each position to
show no drop between Prem & Champions cup? If we want a good
crack at the CC, we have to make sure that our backups can keep
the good momentum in the league.
I'm not a Nick David fan, don't see enough bang for my buck but
if he starts the season and is banging in try's, I'm happy to
relent, else I'd rather see Cleeves be thrown in and let him
build up experience.
#Post#: 126622--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: July 29, 2024, 10:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Banstead Quin link ---
>
>
> I'm not a Nick David fan, don't see enough bang for my buck
but if he starts the season and is banging in try's, I'm happy
to relent, else I'd rather see Cleeves be thrown in and let him
build up experience.
>
--- End Quote ---
I’d give Cassius as much starting minutes as possible in pre
season to see what he’s got. I think David is a good bench
option but I’d rather we try and unearth the next Lynagh
#Post#: 126623--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: July 29, 2024, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Agreed MQ
#Post#: 126628--------------------------------------------------
Re: What is our best 23?
DIR By: Quinky
Date: July 29, 2024, 4:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
On the topic of back row options, I'm a big fan of Chis. If he
stays injury free and gets a run of games, he's a superb option.
I'm surprised we rarely see him at 8 though, when Dommers isn't
available.
Having him and Irne on the pitch gives our pack a bit of edge
too.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 5
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page