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       #Post#: 125672--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: June 14, 2024, 11:14 am
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       --- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
       >
       > Yeah, so essentially, erm, they're both really good.
       >
       > Love that he thinks they are essentially the same player apart
       form how close they take it to the line.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That's not quite what he said - they're very similar in level of
       ability, but different in how they run an atack.
       Fin is much more of a system player - connected to a forward
       pod, playing flat to the line and looking to sell a play in one
       direction while shifting in another.
       Marcus is better when he's free to play what he sees and stay
       out of the attack until he spots an opportunity to exploit. At
       that point he's got much more of a bag of tricks - chips, long
       passes, kick passes, switching sides or just beating players
       with footwork and pace.
       At international level, those opportunities are only going to be
       there if he's got players around him who are committed enough to
       force the defence to respond. In previous England teams he
       hasn't had that, but I hope it's what Borthwick has been working
       on with the squad.
       If not, then they're probably better off with Fin.
       #Post#: 125673--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: RodneyRegis
       Date: June 14, 2024, 12:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What?
       He goes through how they are completely different, as you say -
       but then he says
       'They are very similar in the way that they play the game, but
       the way that they differ is how they attack the line.'
       Which is obviously complete nonsense.
       #Post#: 125674--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: June 14, 2024, 1:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "how" is different from "how close", which is what you wrote
       above.
       #Post#: 125675--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: Mayor West
       Date: June 14, 2024, 2:23 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       From what I understand, Marcus has the added ability to do
       something from nothing like attacking from his own 22 or selling
       a dummy and scything through a defence. Things that appear to be
       too risky at international level for some but what makes you
       enjoy and love the game. Therefore Fin gets the majority of
       votes because he’s more structured suiting international rugby.
       We can’t have exciting stuff at England level can we.
       #Post#: 125676--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: June 14, 2024, 2:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: poorfour link ---
       >
       > At that point he's got much more of a bag of tricks - chips,
       long passes, kick passes, switching sides or just beating
       players with footwork and pace.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Reminds me of my younger self... 😂😂😂
       #Post#: 125677--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: June 14, 2024, 3:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
       >
       > From what I understand, Marcus has the added ability to do
       something from nothing like attacking from his own 22 or selling
       a dummy and scything through a defence. Things that appear to be
       too risky at international level for some but what makes you
       enjoy and love the game. Therefore Fin gets the majority of
       votes because he’s more structured suiting international rugby.
       We can’t have exciting stuff at England level can we.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The difference I see between Marcus and, say, Finn Russell (in
       his younger days) or Danny Cipriani is that - at club level at
       least - Marcus is a percentage player. He just has a different
       set of percentages from other players.
       While he does make mistakes, they're not notably more common
       than with more conservative players. He pulls off stuff that
       would be outrageous for most other players with remarkable
       consistency.
       He hasn't yet calibrated that properly at international level -
       pre-RWC, he tried stuff that would probably have worked against
       club opposition but that backfired against international teams
       where everyone is a little better. The way he managed the
       Champions Cup knockouts and his contributions in the 6N suggest
       that he may be ready now, though.
       #Post#: 125687--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: DDtheD
       Date: June 15, 2024, 10:19 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       One of the things I like about what Biggar said is how tough
       Marcus is- as any of us who regularly actually watch him play
       know. It’s amazing how little credit he gets for that from
       people who probably just assume he’s soft, without really
       watching him that closely.
       #Post#: 125688--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: RodneyRegis
       Date: June 15, 2024, 10:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yes - some of his last ditch tackles in the French knockout
       games were incredible.
       #Post#: 125695--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Fin Smith v Marcus Smith: Who should start for England 
   DIR By: DOK
       Date: June 16, 2024, 5:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Steve Borthwick insists Smiths Marcus and Fin are key drivers in
       England's evolution into a more dynamic side
  HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-13514761/Steve-Borthwick-insists-Smiths-Marcus-Fin-key-drivers-Englands-evolution-dynamic-side.html
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