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#Post#: 124736--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 15, 2024, 8:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> How are "academy contracts" structured? As he last re-signed
with us in 2021 (at the age of 21) I can just about see how that
can be an "academy contract" - but surely it must have evolved
over the years since? He's now 24 - is he really still on
academy pay? Is that even legal?
>
--- End Quote ---
One of the details that wasn't really commented on when the
reduced main cap was agreed was that the Academy Cap was
increased - contracts could be longer and players could be paid
up to £50k, enabling a club to effectively count a home grown
player's first contract inside the academy cap and budget.
From memory, Kenningham, Lynagh and a few others who had played
in the 2020/21 season were still on Academy contracts the
following year, but I think they have all moved on to full
contracts now, along with several others who hadn't played 1st
XV at that point (Laurie spoke about 8 players stepping up last
year - the likes of Trenholm and Baxter).
I don't know if Academy players have to be listed on the Academy
part of offy, but if that's the case then Lynagh's not on an
Academy contract.
#Post#: 124737--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: May 15, 2024, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I guess I was trying to understand if there's an age limit
whereby you can no longer be on an academy contract - whether
that's part of the league's rules and regs or a commonly held
practice that agents and clubs work to. I can't imagine, for
instance, that George Head and Jack Musk are still on academy
contracts at their age - surely any agent worth their salt would
have stepped them up, especially with the academy cap being £50k
and rugby playing careers being so short? I gave those two as
examples, as they're frequently named by people on here as still
being academy players...
In my head I've always assumed 21 would be a natural cut-off,
but is it more down to how many times you've turned out for the
first team? Or a combination of both?
#Post#: 124738--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: Yareet
Date: May 15, 2024, 9:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> I guess I was trying to understand if there's an age limit
whereby you can no longer be on an academy contract - whether
that's part of the league's rules and regs or a commonly held
practice that agents and clubs work to. I can't imagine, for
instance, that George Head and Jack Musk are still on academy
contracts at their age - surely any agent worth their salt would
have stepped them up, especially with the academy cap being £50k
and rugby playing careers being so short? I gave those two as
examples, as they're frequently named by people on here as still
being academy players...
>
> In my head I've always assumed 21 would be a natural cut-off,
but is it more down to how many times you've turned out for the
first team? Or a combination of both?
>
--- End Quote ---
24 and up to £50,000
--- Quote from: Salary Cap Regs 2023/24 ---
> “Academy Player” means any Player who:
> (a) on 1 September 2023 is between 16 and 24 years old
(inclusive); and
> (b) whose total Salary in any Salary Cap Year has never
exceeded £50,000;
> Guidance Note: A Club may choose to include a Player who meets
the definition of an Academy Player in its Senior Salary Cap but
once that Player is included in the Senior Salary Cap he shall
no longer be deemed an Academy Player in the current or any
future Salary Cap Year and shall be deemed a Senior Player for
the purposes of the Regulations.
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://media-cdn.incrowdsports.com/a4f08b9e-8f9a-427a-ba6d-e32b23c2b2c5.pdf
Edit: I suppose technically the cut off is 25 as a player may
have his 25th birthday during the season and still be classed as
an academy player
#Post#: 124739--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 15, 2024, 9:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> I guess I was trying to understand if there's an age limit
whereby you can no longer be on an academy contract - whether
that's part of the league's rules and regs or a commonly held
practice that agents and clubs work to. I can't imagine, for
instance, that George Head and Jack Musk are still on academy
contracts at their age - surely any agent worth their salt would
have stepped them up, especially with the academy cap being £50k
and rugby playing careers being so short? I gave those two as
examples, as they're frequently named by people on here as still
being academy players...
>
> In my head I've always assumed 21 would be a natural cut-off,
but is it more down to how many times you've turned out for the
first team? Or a combination of both?
>
--- End Quote ---
Here's one I prepared earlier:
HTML https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com/general-discussion/academy-salary-cap/
#Post#: 124740--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 15, 2024, 9:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@DOK - would it be worth having a sticky with a summary of cap
regulations?
If so, this is handy as well:
HTML https://premiershiprugby.com/content/premiership-rugby-clubs-unanimously-vote-to-temporarily-reduce-the-salary-cap
#Post#: 124742--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: never sleep
Date: May 15, 2024, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> @DOK - would it be worth having a sticky with a summary of cap
regulations?
>
> If so, this is handy as well:
>
HTML https://premiershiprugby.com/content/premiership-rugby-clubs-unanimously-vote-to-temporarily-reduce-the-salary-cap
>
--- End Quote ---
One thing that isn't mentioned in that post is for injury
dispensation.
Do you know how that works?
#Post#: 124743--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: May 15, 2024, 10:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Interesting, thanks - that's a lot older than I would have
thought, especially with so many 21-24 year olds regularly
holding first team spots at practically every Prem club.
Presumably most of those with "higher ceilings" have negotiated
stepping up onto senior salaries though...
Looking at our squad for example, I'd have thought these
24-and-under players could make demands much higher than £50k
(based on regular appearances in the first team or a handful of
strong appearances):
Baxter (admittedly he's only nailed a run of games relatively
recently so maybe renegotiating this summer?)
Kenningham (based on form prior to this season)
Beard
Murley
Lynagh
Would have included CCS but assume he didn't join our "academy"
as he was already established as a first-teamer at Irish and was
injury cover anyway? You could also make lesser arguments for:
Riley
Head
Musk
Hammond
Trenholm (only just breaking through - is his new contract a
senior contract though?)
Anyanwu
Presumably there's no easy way of knowing who is on an academy
contract and when? Also, do we know if contracts are
ever/routinely restructured part way through a season (as
happens in the NFL)? E.g. given Baxter's meteoric rise, would
his agent have been in a room with Laurie hammering out improved
terms based on excelling expectations of an academy player, or
would that require a whole new contract being signed?
(Sorry for hijacking this thread - welcome Titi!)
#Post#: 124744--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 15, 2024, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Laurie mentioned 8 players they expected to step up this season,
by which i always assumed he meant they'd graduated to senior
contracts. I think that list is almost certainly TBQ's less
Kenningham, Murley and Lynagh (who were already on senior
contracts as far as I can tell).
#Post#: 124745--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: May 15, 2024, 11:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> How are "academy contracts" structured? As he last re-signed
with us in 2021 (at the age of 21) I can just about see how that
can be an "academy contract" - but surely it must have evolved
over the years since? He's now 24 - is he really still on
academy pay? Is that even legal?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah I mena that is definitely wrong. When a player comes out of
the academy he gets a full contract. The idea that lynagh is
being paid the same as somebody in the academy this season is
pour les oiseaux.
#Post#: 124746--------------------------------------------------
Re: New signing tomorrow
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: May 15, 2024, 11:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> Interesting, thanks - that's a lot older than I would have
thought, especially with so many 21-24 year olds regularly
holding first team spots at practically every Prem club.
Presumably most of those with "higher ceilings" have negotiated
stepping up onto senior salaries though...
>
> Looking at our squad for example, I'd have thought these
24-and-under players could make demands much higher than £50k
(based on regular appearances in the first team or a handful of
strong appearances):
>
> Baxter (admittedly he's only nailed a run of games relatively
recently so maybe renegotiating this summer?)
> Kenningham (based on form prior to this season)
> Beard
> Murley
> Lynagh
>
> Would have included CCS but assume he didn't join our
"academy" as he was already established as a first-teamer at
Irish and was injury cover anyway? You could also make lesser
arguments for:
>
> Riley
> Head
> Musk
> Hammond
> Trenholm (only just breaking through - is his new contract a
senior contract though?)
> Anyanwu
>
> Presumably there's no easy way of knowing who is on an academy
contract and when? Also, do we know if contracts are
ever/routinely restructured part way through a season (as
happens in the NFL)? E.g. given Baxter's meteoric rise, would
his agent have been in a room with Laurie hammering out improved
terms based on excelling expectations of an academy player, or
would that require a whole new contract being signed?
>
> (Sorry for hijacking this thread - welcome Titi!)
>
--- End Quote ---
Again, half those players aren't in the academy...
It's not that tricky. They are in the academy and on an academy
contract, or they're not :)
HTML https://www.quins.co.uk/team/academy-programme
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