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#Post#: 124435--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Mayor West
Date: May 10, 2024, 12:17 pm
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I think the question we would all like to know the answer to is;
after they were caught did they still have to honour all the
players contracts. Nobody has come out with any details on this.
I can’t see players saying, “ oh all right then you don’t have
to give me what was in my legally binding contract”. There must
have been a mountain of legal contracts that couldn’t or
wouldn’t be changed. This would mean that they have still been
over the cap until the contracts run out and as they locked a
load of them in before the cap reduction it’s difficult to see
that they could still be on the same level. It looks very much
like they are now making the effort to fall in line with the
rest of the Prem with all the high profile exits from the club.
#Post#: 124436--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Fursty
Date: May 10, 2024, 1:54 pm
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I think it’s fairly likely that what Sarries were officially
done for was the thin end of the wedge, remember they refused to
open their books. There have been plenty of rumours about farms
in South Africa and payments to family members etc.
#Post#: 124437--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: FishQuin
Date: May 10, 2024, 3:04 pm
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--- Quote from: Mayor West link ---
>
> I think the question we would all like to know the answer to
is; after they were caught did they still have to honour all the
players contracts.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don’t have inside knowledge but I think it’s pretty clear all
contracts would have been honoured.
But that doesn’t mean prem rugby had to let them play. Sarries
should have been forced to name a squad within the cap.
#Post#: 124438--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: FishQuin
Date: May 10, 2024, 3:08 pm
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--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> Two questions in response to this:
>
> 1. What would Prem Rugby have to do to reassure you that
proper regulation is now in place?
> 2. What's in it for Prem Rugby to allow another salary cap
scandal to come out of the woodwork?
>
--- End Quote ---
1. There’s nothing they can do in the short term. The trust has
been broken. Long term, if they were to start catching and
punishing cheats, they might earn that trust back. But that’s
unlikely to ever happen.
2. Its not that they want this. But they’ve got a track record
of being incapable. I think it’s pretty reasonable to doubt
their ability to govern.
#Post#: 124440--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Yareet
Date: May 10, 2024, 3:54 pm
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--- Quote from: FishQuin link ---
>
> 1. There’s nothing they can do in the short term. The trust
has been broken. Long term, if they were to start catching and
punishing cheats, they might earn that trust back. But that’s
unlikely to ever happen.
> 2. Its not that they want this. But they’ve got a track record
of being incapable. I think it’s pretty reasonable to doubt
their ability to govern.
>
--- End Quote ---
How do you know which clubs cheated if they weren't caught?
#Post#: 124441--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 10, 2024, 4:13 pm
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You do all realise that a) Premiership Rugby is entirely made up
of the representative of the clubs (or more strictly their
owners)? and b) it did recognise that Saracens was cheating
several years before it was able to take action. The issue was
Nigel Wray lawyering up whenever there was a threat of action.
It still rankles that Saracens, for all the penalties they
incurred, never did fully open their books, and that the squad
they have maintained until now includes players who definitely
benefited from the cheating. And even more so that the media
pundits witter on and on about how good they are.
But I have been encouraged by how variable their performances
have been this year, suggesting that we may see them rejoin the
ranks of the mere mortals before too long.
#Post#: 124443--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: May 10, 2024, 4:22 pm
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Hiding it by... setting up companies with the players and
registering with Companies House then filing annual returns for
those companies?
>
> FWIW, I think Sarries thought they were being clever rather
than mendacious and as a result have to some extent taken
umbrage that their clever plan has (in their view) been
retrospectively banned. If you (Prem Rugby) are going to move
the goalposts, we (Sarries) aren't playing.
>
> It's puerile but far from a conspiracy and fits with Prem
Rugby's acceptance that their own rules weren't strong enough.
>
> Having said that, one of the first rules of the salary cap is
that clubs should point out any loopholes.
>
--- End Quote ---
I would hasten to add that back in 2014 Saracens got caught the
first time, but not punished because they & Bath threatened to
drag the league into a mire of legal action. Instead they got
their way and the cap jumped up repeatedly in the following
years. IIRC the accusation was they were paying overseas players
off the books in SA.
It's fair to say that they thought they could find another way
round the salary cap. That is mendacious IMO.
Anyway, the wider point of Saracens continuing to reap the
rewards of years of financial doping while being "clean" now is
where I stand, hence my feeling they'll just get weaker and
weaker squad-wise until they don't have a squad with a billion
more caps than eveyone else.
#Post#: 124449--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Bolly-Quin
Date: May 10, 2024, 6:12 pm
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Just beat them. Then we won't care.
#Post#: 124450--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Brown Bottle
Date: May 10, 2024, 6:12 pm
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Not defending them but I thought the issue was extraneous
funding that was undeclared. The players' contracts were below
the cap.
#Post#: 125102--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: May 24, 2024, 3:17 am
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Second-row Theo Currie and flanker Jonny Smith are also exiting
the club.
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