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       #Post#: 124415--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: poorfour
       Date: May 10, 2024, 8:12 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Yareet link ---
       >
       > Sorry but I'm not sure that's true. The Salary Cap Manager for
       Prem Rugby has always been Andrew Rogers. He's now Salary Cap
       Director (one of the recommendations of the Dyson report) and
       Head of Governance. To the best of my knowledge, he's never
       worked at PWC as he's always been a sports administrator.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It's both/and. Rogers is the Salary Cap Director and you are
       right that he is not an accountant, but the salary cap audits
       are performed by an independent auditor, who are PWC.
       #Post#: 124416--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: TomBuckQuin
       Date: May 10, 2024, 8:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > I think it's  just a question of trust, or rather a lack
       thereof.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Based on what, though? Prem Rugby admitted their regulation
       didn't have the right scope and access at the time - they
       changed that and now it does. Lack of trust in Sarries is fair
       enough but that's not what we're talking about here.
       #Post#: 124419--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
       Date: May 10, 2024, 8:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
       >
       > Two questions in response to this:
       >
       > 1. What would Prem Rugby have to do to reassure you that
       proper regulation is now in place?
       > 2. What's in it for Prem Rugby to allow another salary cap
       scandal to come out of the woodwork?
       >
       > I'm definitely FAR from being a Sarries apologist and I take
       your point that Sarries have never seemed repentant etc, etc...
       but that's separate from salary cap regulation. Unless there's
       evidence to the contrary, surely we have to trust that it is in
       Prem Rugby's best interests to have the checks and balances in
       place now? They don't want another big scandal in the papers - a
       second one would be hugely damaging to the brand.
       >
       > I really DO understand the frustration that there has never
       been full justice served for those years of cheating - to call
       it what it was. Realistically, though, the only way something
       like that kind of retribution comes about might be when Mark
       McCall moves on and the next DoR comes in and wipes the slate
       clean, handing back the replica trophies and admitting they
       weren't fairly won. Then again, still unlikely - and personally,
       I'm over it.
       >
       > What I don't understand is why many seem to conflate Sarries'
       wrongdoing with the regulation side of things and create this
       ongoing conspiracy that they are still going to be able to dodge
       the cap - I don't think there's any evidence whatsoever that
       Prem Rugby is corrupt like that. If I'm being naive, prove me
       wrong.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I won't be over it until they apologise to the other clubs and
       the fans, sponsors, players and employees for the experiences
       they have taken away from them. So basically forever!
       As regards Prem Rugby, they gave way to Salarycens threats the
       1st time they were caught out and treated them far too leniently
       the second so who knows what is going on behind the scenes.
       There has already been a second scandal, who says there won't be
       a third?
       There are now far more backers behind the cheats, how do we know
       that deals aren't being done that Prem Rugby don't know about? A
       leopard doesn't change it's spots!
       #Post#: 124420--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
       Date: May 10, 2024, 8:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: poorfour link ---
       >
       > It's both/and. Rogers is the Salary Cap Director and you are
       right that he is not an accountant, but the salary cap audits
       are performed by an independent auditor, who are PWC.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Why on earth would you have faith in the accounting of the big
       4?
  HTML https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/07/big-four-accountancy-firms-pwc-and-ey-fined-over-lcf-audit-failures
  HTML https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/12/kpmg-fined-record-21m-over-carillion-audit-failures
       #Post#: 124421--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: Mr_B
       Date: May 10, 2024, 8:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       my personal thought on the property thing, the players knew what
       they were doing accepting that form of payment. The club knew it
       or they wouldnt have tried hiding it, therefor if player
       received a house to sign his 3 year contract then take the value
       of the house divide by # years contract and add to each year
       after relegation to their salary. If still in breach after
       relegation they should have points deducted again. The club
       currently still benefits from those players still being there,
       you cant fire the players but you can add the full value of
       their contract to the subsequent financial years.
       #Post#: 124423--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: May 10, 2024, 8:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
       >
       > Based on what, though?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Seriously? This is Sarries we're talking about!!!
       #Post#: 124424--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: TomBuckQuin
       Date: May 10, 2024, 9:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > Seriously? This is Sarries we're talking about!!!
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Come on now - I know you're capable of reading whole posts and
       not taking the first four words out of context...
       #Post#: 124429--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: Yareet
       Date: May 10, 2024, 10:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Mr_B link ---
       >
       > my personal thought on the property thing, the players knew
       what they were doing accepting that form of payment. The club
       knew it or they wouldn't have tried hiding it, therefor if
       player received a house to sign his 3 year contract then take
       the value of the house divide by # years contract and add to
       each year after relegation to their salary. If still in breach
       after relegation they should have points deducted again. The
       club currently still benefits from those players still being
       there, you cant fire the players but you can add the full value
       of their contract to the subsequent financial years.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Hiding it by... setting up companies with the players and
       registering with Companies House then filing annual returns for
       those companies?
       FWIW, I think Sarries thought they were being clever rather than
       mendacious and as a result have to some extent taken umbrage
       that their clever plan has (in their view) been retrospectively
       banned. If you (Prem Rugby) are going to move the goalposts, we
       (Sarries) aren't playing.
       It's puerile but far from a conspiracy and fits with Prem
       Rugby's acceptance that their own rules weren't strong enough.
       Having said that, one of the first rules of the salary cap is
       that clubs should point out any loopholes.
       #Post#: 124432--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: May 10, 2024, 11:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
       >
       > Come on now - I know you're capable of reading whole posts and
       not taking the first four words out of context...
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       My point stands. You have a club that breached the rules, and
       when challenged, manage to get the thing swept under the carpet
       by dint of threatening an expensive and lengthy legal battle -
       on condition that they didn't do it again. They did it again. At
       no point did they show contrition, nor acknowledge wilful
       wrongdoing - it was all a big mistake.
       Forgive me for my lack of trust. As the saying goes: "Fool me
       once, it's your fault; fool me twice, it's mine".
       You may be overflowing with the milk of forgiveness, but I
       suspect you're in the minority of rugby fans.
       #Post#: 124434--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Quins - In's and Out's
   DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
       Date: May 10, 2024, 11:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You may be overflowing with the milk of forgiveness, but I
       suspect you're in the minority of rugby fans.
       Fixed it for you!
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