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#Post#: 124415--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: poorfour
Date: May 10, 2024, 8:12 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Sorry but I'm not sure that's true. The Salary Cap Manager for
Prem Rugby has always been Andrew Rogers. He's now Salary Cap
Director (one of the recommendations of the Dyson report) and
Head of Governance. To the best of my knowledge, he's never
worked at PWC as he's always been a sports administrator.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's both/and. Rogers is the Salary Cap Director and you are
right that he is not an accountant, but the salary cap audits
are performed by an independent auditor, who are PWC.
#Post#: 124416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: May 10, 2024, 8:20 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> I think it's just a question of trust, or rather a lack
thereof.
>
--- End Quote ---
Based on what, though? Prem Rugby admitted their regulation
didn't have the right scope and access at the time - they
changed that and now it does. Lack of trust in Sarries is fair
enough but that's not what we're talking about here.
#Post#: 124419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: May 10, 2024, 8:42 am
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--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> Two questions in response to this:
>
> 1. What would Prem Rugby have to do to reassure you that
proper regulation is now in place?
> 2. What's in it for Prem Rugby to allow another salary cap
scandal to come out of the woodwork?
>
> I'm definitely FAR from being a Sarries apologist and I take
your point that Sarries have never seemed repentant etc, etc...
but that's separate from salary cap regulation. Unless there's
evidence to the contrary, surely we have to trust that it is in
Prem Rugby's best interests to have the checks and balances in
place now? They don't want another big scandal in the papers - a
second one would be hugely damaging to the brand.
>
> I really DO understand the frustration that there has never
been full justice served for those years of cheating - to call
it what it was. Realistically, though, the only way something
like that kind of retribution comes about might be when Mark
McCall moves on and the next DoR comes in and wipes the slate
clean, handing back the replica trophies and admitting they
weren't fairly won. Then again, still unlikely - and personally,
I'm over it.
>
> What I don't understand is why many seem to conflate Sarries'
wrongdoing with the regulation side of things and create this
ongoing conspiracy that they are still going to be able to dodge
the cap - I don't think there's any evidence whatsoever that
Prem Rugby is corrupt like that. If I'm being naive, prove me
wrong.
>
--- End Quote ---
I won't be over it until they apologise to the other clubs and
the fans, sponsors, players and employees for the experiences
they have taken away from them. So basically forever!
As regards Prem Rugby, they gave way to Salarycens threats the
1st time they were caught out and treated them far too leniently
the second so who knows what is going on behind the scenes.
There has already been a second scandal, who says there won't be
a third?
There are now far more backers behind the cheats, how do we know
that deals aren't being done that Prem Rugby don't know about? A
leopard doesn't change it's spots!
#Post#: 124420--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: May 10, 2024, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> It's both/and. Rogers is the Salary Cap Director and you are
right that he is not an accountant, but the salary cap audits
are performed by an independent auditor, who are PWC.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why on earth would you have faith in the accounting of the big
4?
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/07/big-four-accountancy-firms-pwc-and-ey-fined-over-lcf-audit-failures
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/12/kpmg-fined-record-21m-over-carillion-audit-failures
#Post#: 124421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Mr_B
Date: May 10, 2024, 8:52 am
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my personal thought on the property thing, the players knew what
they were doing accepting that form of payment. The club knew it
or they wouldnt have tried hiding it, therefor if player
received a house to sign his 3 year contract then take the value
of the house divide by # years contract and add to each year
after relegation to their salary. If still in breach after
relegation they should have points deducted again. The club
currently still benefits from those players still being there,
you cant fire the players but you can add the full value of
their contract to the subsequent financial years.
#Post#: 124423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 10, 2024, 8:55 am
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--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> Based on what, though?
>
--- End Quote ---
Seriously? This is Sarries we're talking about!!!
#Post#: 124424--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: May 10, 2024, 9:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Seriously? This is Sarries we're talking about!!!
>
--- End Quote ---
Come on now - I know you're capable of reading whole posts and
not taking the first four words out of context...
#Post#: 124429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Yareet
Date: May 10, 2024, 10:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mr_B link ---
>
> my personal thought on the property thing, the players knew
what they were doing accepting that form of payment. The club
knew it or they wouldn't have tried hiding it, therefor if
player received a house to sign his 3 year contract then take
the value of the house divide by # years contract and add to
each year after relegation to their salary. If still in breach
after relegation they should have points deducted again. The
club currently still benefits from those players still being
there, you cant fire the players but you can add the full value
of their contract to the subsequent financial years.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hiding it by... setting up companies with the players and
registering with Companies House then filing annual returns for
those companies?
FWIW, I think Sarries thought they were being clever rather than
mendacious and as a result have to some extent taken umbrage
that their clever plan has (in their view) been retrospectively
banned. If you (Prem Rugby) are going to move the goalposts, we
(Sarries) aren't playing.
It's puerile but far from a conspiracy and fits with Prem
Rugby's acceptance that their own rules weren't strong enough.
Having said that, one of the first rules of the salary cap is
that clubs should point out any loopholes.
#Post#: 124432--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: Quinky
Date: May 10, 2024, 11:47 am
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--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> Come on now - I know you're capable of reading whole posts and
not taking the first four words out of context...
>
--- End Quote ---
My point stands. You have a club that breached the rules, and
when challenged, manage to get the thing swept under the carpet
by dint of threatening an expensive and lengthy legal battle -
on condition that they didn't do it again. They did it again. At
no point did they show contrition, nor acknowledge wilful
wrongdoing - it was all a big mistake.
Forgive me for my lack of trust. As the saying goes: "Fool me
once, it's your fault; fool me twice, it's mine".
You may be overflowing with the milk of forgiveness, but I
suspect you're in the minority of rugby fans.
#Post#: 124434--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quins - In's and Out's
DIR By: TeddingtonQuin
Date: May 10, 2024, 11:52 am
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You may be overflowing with the milk of forgiveness, but I
suspect you're in the minority of rugby fans.
Fixed it for you!
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