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#Post#: 123814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dickson as sir for Saturday
DIR By: baggie
Date: April 29, 2024, 6:48 am
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--- Quote from: HumpyQuin link ---
>
> I'm sure the Dickson family has great respect and appreciation
of both quins and saints, with Lee playing 250+ games at saints.
Must be quite a few years now since Karl last played for quins.
>
--- End Quote ---
It is common knowledge within the rugby community that whilst
Karl & Lee are brothers they are NOT “best friends” … if you
ever watched them play against each other you would have seen
this play out
#Post#: 123817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dickson as sir for Saturday
DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
Date: April 29, 2024, 6:51 am
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--- Quote from: Quinky link ---
>
> Presumably the TMOs and assistant refs are also poor?
>
--- End Quote ---
Na, top guys
#Post#: 123821--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dickson as sir for Saturday
DIR By: Quinten Poulsen
Date: April 29, 2024, 8:01 am
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--- Quote from: baggie link ---
>
> It is common knowledge within the rugby community that whilst
Karl & Lee are brothers they are NOT “best friends” … if you
ever watched them play against each other you would have seen
this play out
>
--- End Quote ---
Years ago a fellow Quins fan told me that he'd heard they didn't
like each other that much. A while later I read an interview
with Karl and he said they were a very close family. I'm far
more inclined to believe the latter. Plus I'd expect nothing
less than brothers on opposing sides going full bore at each
other!
#Post#: 123942--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dickson as sir for Saturday
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: May 2, 2024, 2:37 am
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There is nothing wrong with Karl Dickson refereeing a team he
played for
Former Harlequins player is embroiled in needless controversy
after he failed to show Danny Care a second yellow card on
Saturday
BRIAN MOORE
29 April 2024 • 7:00am
Brian Moore
249
Referee Karl Dickson during the Gallagher Premiership Rugby
match between Harlequins and Northampton Saints at Twickenham
Stadium on April 27, 2024 in London, England
Many thought Karl Dickson should have sent Danny Care off at
Twickenham on Saturday CREDIT: Getty Images/Bob Bradford
Another thrilling try-fest in a Gallagher Premiership game on
Saturday is now being marred by a supposed refereeing
controversy. This time it involved a decision by the
international referee, Karl Dickson, a former Harlequins player.
Dickson penalised Quins scrum-half Danny Care for pushing a
Northampton player off the ball but did not yellow card him for
playing the Saints scrum-half, Alex Mitchell, as the ball
emerged from a breakdown 10 metres from the Quins’ line.
To his credit, Northampton’s coach Phil Dowson gave a very
measured comment about the incident. “Karl has had a good look
at it, the TMO has had a good look at it, several times,” said
Dowson. “They took plenty of time to look at it and if they
thought it wasn’t a second yellow then it is not.” This was the
comment of a coach who knows that his side played 30 minutes of
the game with a man advantage and should have made that count in
any event. That they didn’t was down to an atypical series of
handling errors and imprecision at crucial points during the
game. Dowson was big enough to know that Saints simply did not
play well enough.
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So, why the controversy? It has come because of the inference by
some that Dickson did not give a yellow card to Care, who had
been yellow carded earlier, because Dickson was a former
Harlequins player. Lest you think this is confected, this
scenario was prefaced last week in an article in the Northampton
Chronicle and Echo. The Saints’ local paper claimed that Dickson
should not have been put in charge of the game because his
decisions would be open to criticism because of a conflict of
interest.
It further claimed that there were plenty of other referees that
could have been given the game and that removing Dickson would
have prevented the sort of criticism that is now being made. His
removal would have had that effect but there are other points to
consider when calling for a blanket ban.
First of all, there is no evidence that Dickson’s decision was
made because of any bias, conscious or subconscious. If he was
biased to Quins, why did he give them three yellow cards, at
least one of which was eminently debatable? Dickson’s brother,
Lee, was a Northampton stalwart, so might he not harbour
goodwill to the Saints accordingly? Commentator Lawrence
Dallaglio thought the Care incident was a “stonewall yellow”,
but then he played for Wasps and probably hates Quins. The fact
that I made that comment on Dallaglio is probably because I
played for Quins and am biased. This rabbit hole has no end, so
let’s not start down it.
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This bias imputation is conjecture at best and, moreover, it
does not consider the reality of refereeing. The laws are
complex, and officials are deliberately given discretion in
interpretation in order for a game to progress without constant
stoppages. Without this flexibility no game would flow. It is
also not the case that there are plenty of referees who would be
best qualified to officiate in such a top-of-the-table clash.
Dickson was one of a handful of Premiership referees with the
right experience and to ban him from officiating for a
pre-judged potential of bias would be an unfortunate precedent
in club rugby.
Danny Care and Karl Dickson of Harlequins
Dickson, right, played some of his career alongside Care at
Harlequins CREDIT: Getty Images/Steve Bardens
The real evil of setting off down this path is betrayed by later
comments in a Chronicle article. It goes on to highlight and
criticise the fact that Wayne Barnes, one of the best referees
of the modern era, was constantly allowed to referee Saints’
games after he sent off the Northampton captain, Dylan Hartley,
for allegedly calling him “a f------ cheat”.
You see where this kind of thinking goes? You get to a point
where you are calling for referees to be banned if they have any
‘previous’ with you. In doing so, you are implicitly criticising
the referee, not players’ misconduct, nor the often-abusive
conduct of supporters on social media. Is this what rugby wants?
Rugby is constantly calling for former players to become
referees, and it would be good for the game if they did. If you
had this ban, what would you do with someone like Andy
Gomarsall, who played for seven different professional English
clubs? While he is an extreme example, there are many former
players who have played for three or four Premiership clubs. You
cannot have it both ways on this one.
It is true that international referees must be neutral, but they
are treated differently because of the different environment. As
the comments of national coaches, players, fans, and media
clearly show, nationality invariably eradicates any vestige of
objectivity. Rugby should not give in to these baser traits at
club level.
#Post#: 123945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dickson as sir for Saturday
DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
Date: May 2, 2024, 2:41 am
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Karl Dickson’s Danny Care decision defended by RFU
Referee controversially opted not to send off the scrum-half for
a second yellow offence against Northampton Saints
Charlie Morgan,
SENIOR RUGBY WRITER
28 April 2024 • 8:18pm
85
Karl Dickson (L) Danny Care (R) – Karl Dickson's Danny Care
decision defended by RFU
Karl Dickson (left) has come under scrutiny as Danny Care
avoided a red card CREDIT: Getty Images/Garry Bowden
The Rugby Football Union (RFU) has moved to defend Karl
Dickson’s decision not to send off Danny Care, his former
Harlequins teammate, against Northampton Saints on Saturday at
Twickenham.
Care, who had received a yellow card in the first half for a
high tackle on Courtney Lawes, scrambled back to stop a break
from Northampton back-rower Juarno Augustus during the second
period.
The veteran scrum-half collided with a supporting James Ramm and
then tackled Alex Mitchell, stalling the Saints attack. Dickson
blew for a penalty and then appeared to reach towards his pocket
for a card. However, following a discussion with the television
match official (TMO), Andrew Jackson, it was deemed that a
penalty to Northampton was sufficient.
Paul Hull, the RFU’s head of professional game match officials,
was quoted in a statement to TNT Sports that explained why
Dickson had initially reached for his pocket to dismiss Care,
only to lower his hand “to fully assess the situation”.
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Dickson, according to the statement, had initially thought that
a ruck had been formed and that Care had “cynically” tackled
Mitchell while off his feet. In fact, no ruck had formed on the
back of Augustus’ run. As a result, there was “nothing illegal”
about Care’s challenge on Mitchell.
Northampton were awarded a penalty for Care’s push on Ramm, but
Dickson felt as though there was no need for a second yellow
card because Ramm was not in a position to receive an offload
from Augustus, having overrun his Northampton colleague.
The statement noted that, had a ruck been formed, Ramm would
have had to enter it from the side, therefore risking a penalty
anyway. Care was replaced within moments of the incident with
Will Porter, his deputy, scoring twice to land a 41-32 victory
for Harlequins.
Dickson, a former scrum-half who represented the London club
between 2009 and 2017 before pursuing a career in officiating,
presented three yellow cards to Harlequins over the course of
the game. As well as Care’s first-half sin-binning, Louis Lynagh
and Tyrone Green also saw yellow.
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