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#Post#: 122013--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: March 31, 2024, 11:25 am
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An interesting thread. I've a slightly different, more upbeat
take:
1. It's focusing on the negative rather than the positive. The
core of the team remains from the 2021/22 winning season. There
are plenty of examples of us wrestling back momentum. This
thread is focusing on a sample size of the last two games...
2. Lots of teams have taken a shellacking or two this season,
particularly away from home. Sarries on Friday night... Exeter
today...
I don't think this is a uniquely Quins problem, and I'd argue
that we're one of the top teams of putting points on the board
when momentum is with us (along with Saints and Sarries).
I get the calls for a totemic leader who, after conceding a try
or two, gathers the troops under the sticks and reads the riots
act, but realistically who is that? I think that's an
oversimplification and I'd point to point 2 above which would
suggest no other team has got said leader either.
I enjoy our attacking intent and the Quins DNA, but what I would
like to see is a noticeably different template when we play away
from home against the best sides. We saw it away to Sale last
season, with solid defence and Marcus kicking to turn.
#Post#: 122024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: Yareet
Date: March 31, 2024, 5:52 pm
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Leftfield suggestion but does the captain have to be the one
reading the riot act?
If you have a player who is a guaranteed starter and gets on
well with refs, make that person captain. They can do all the
official stuff.
Somebody else can do the bollockings within the team.
My understanding is that this is to some extent the model
Warburton used with AWJ for Wales and then POC with the Lions.
#Post#: 122027--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 31, 2024, 7:45 pm
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Possibly. But I'm not sure it really works like that with quins
for whatever reason. How many times have we seen a couple of top
personnel missing and the rest look like lost puppies as a
result?
Robshaw just seemed to the manner born as soon as he broke
through, to the extent that I think he was debut 2008, player of
the season 2009, captain 2010, off the back of bloodgate. A year
letter a letter of apology to the fans for a woeful performance,
before turning everything around? My memory is hazy at the best
of times so may be chronologically nonsense. But either way.
Then England captain in his 2nd test?
Absolute Brierley character. That what quins players need.
#Post#: 122029--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: KentQuin
Date: April 1, 2024, 2:01 am
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--- Quote from: Yareet link ---
>
> Leftfield suggestion but does the captain have to be the one
reading the riot act?
>
> If you have a player who is a guaranteed starter and gets on
well with refs, make that person captain. They can do all the
official stuff.
>
> Somebody else can do the bollockings within the team.
>
> My understanding is that this is to some extent the model
Warburton used with AWJ for Wales and then POC with the Lions.
>
--- End Quote ---
No it doesn't and you make a valuable point in that the best
sides have multiple leaders. There isn't an over-reliance on a
single individual.
#Post#: 122030--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 1, 2024, 2:45 am
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There’s a book called The Captain Class, which studied teams
that had a long run of successful performance and found that the
one thing they had in common was a captain who wasn’t
necessarily the best player on the team, but was the hardest
working and the one who the rest of the team knew would go into
battle for them, whether with the opposition, the ref, or
occasionally taking a penalty for the team.
Robshaw fit that mould almost perfectly - though you wouldn’t
have seen him putting in a cheap shot. The current squad doesn’t
really have anyone in that mould, at least not who is playing
regularly. You could see Steph or Chis or even Lawday in that
role; but none of them are regular starters at their current
state of fitness.
Incidentally, the book was written by Americans, so it waxes
lyrical about basketball players and ice hockey players and
deigns to consider the occasional soccer player while glossing
over the single best example of what they’re talking about in a
single paragraph.
If you’re going to write a book about captains who have presided
over an extended period of dominance in a team sport, you’d
think that you’d do your research well enough to spend some time
on Richie McCaw, wouldn’t you?
#Post#: 122060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: thatchapcarnell
Date: April 2, 2024, 3:11 am
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> There’s a book called The Captain Class, which studied teams
that had a long run of successful performance and found that the
one thing they had in common was a captain who wasn’t
necessarily the best player on the team, but was the hardest
working and the one who the rest of the team knew would go into
battle for them, whether with the opposition, the ref, or
occasionally taking a penalty for the team.
>
> Robshaw fit that mould almost perfectly - though you wouldn’t
have seen him putting in a cheap shot. The current squad doesn’t
really have anyone in that mould, at least not who is playing
regularly. You could see Steph or Chis or even Lawday in that
role; but none of them are regular starters at their current
state of fitness.
>
--- End Quote ---
Would disagree with the idea the team doesn't have that person.
Will Evans sure exemplifies doing the hard graft,
under-the-radar stuff and goes about business. Gives 8/10 every
single week. I don't know what he's like off the field of course
but if you're going to pick Robshaw v2 then WEv would seem the
obvious choice.
#Post#: 122065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: poorfour
Date: April 2, 2024, 4:29 am
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He's a possibility, but I've not really seen him taking a
leadership role on the pitch - he comes across as more of a get
on and do it kind of guy. Not to say he couldn't step up, but
we've not seen that from him yet.
Having finally got round to watching the Bath game, I wonder if
Baxter is a potential future captain. Huge energy on the pitch
and (I'm a little surprised to say) in that game Marler didn't
add anything when he came on.
#Post#: 122067--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: April 2, 2024, 4:58 am
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That was Marler during the 6n too. Still a good scrummager, if
not as good as he used to be, but offering less around the
field. It's just an age thing I reckon.
Agreed on Baxter as a future captain. He's clearly a bright lad
and already a "follow me" kind of player. I'm disappointed
Dombrandt hasn't turned into the captain I thought he would be
but he would make a good VC.
#Post#: 122073--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: April 2, 2024, 9:20 am
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I think Dommers still could, but he probably needs a bit of a
rocket for various reasons. He's an absolute enigma, sometimes
he's unbeatable, best player on the pitch by miles, sometimes
his physicality and effort falls off a cliff for no discernable
reason. Often from minute to minute during a game.
#Post#: 122074--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lack of leadership
DIR By: Banstead Quin
Date: April 2, 2024, 9:44 am
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A lot of good, and thought-provoking, comments above.
Dommers, yeah, I wonder how much the England in and out isn't
helping him in this role. If he was a no for England, then I
think he has a different approach and would be a good,
consistent choice.
wEV, sadly won't be wearing the rose so could step up and take
the mantle. Only consideration being that he is the one that
get's pinged when the ref decides he doesn't like the breakdown
but if he's the captain, does allow him to have the dialogue and
may well change the ref's mind.
What I like about Baxter in this regard is his personality and
dry sense of humour. He won't be as big a wind up as Joe and
will paint better pictures. I think he's already highly thought
of in the squad so could be a good captain in about 2-3 years
once he's got the scars.
I think the multiple leaders is sometimes unhelpful, too many
voices and you would still have that one leader. The
aforementioned Farrell, as an example, I can't see anyone else
in the 'leadership group' telling him he's wrong. Be a leader by
doing your job well and be that example.
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