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       #Post#: 121678--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: Quinky
       Date: March 26, 2024, 2:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Marsile link ---
       >
       >
       >
       > I wasn't aware that Harlequins picked the England rugby team
       but now you've mention it, it does help explain how Chris
       Robshaw and Mike Brown got so many caps as well as Care.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Some people believe that Owen Farrell had a huge say in England
       selection. Clearly he rates Care higher than you do.
       Oh no, what a conundrum! Your raison d'être has a view that you
       can't possibly support 😂😂😂
       #Post#: 121682--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: Marsile
       Date: March 26, 2024, 3:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Quinky link ---
       >
       > Some people believe that Owen Farrell had a huge say in
       England selection. Clearly he rates Care higher than you do.
       >
       > Oh no, what a conundrum! Your raison d'être has a view that
       you can't possibly support 😂😂😂
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It's unlikely Ben Spencer would have played hundreds of matches
       passing the ball thousands of times to Owen Farrell at Saracens
       for a decade if Farrell didn't rate Spencer.
       But sure, believe 'some' people then extrapolate as you wish.
       #Post#: 121683--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: Archquin
       Date: March 26, 2024, 4:15 pm
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       Won't anyone debate with you on Sarries board 🙄
       #Post#: 121684--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: March 26, 2024, 4:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Marsile link ---
       >
       >
       >
       > You should read that stat again, it's 58% as a starter.
       > The season before the one you looked at he was a starter 65%
       of the time.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       No, please learn to read, and please take the time to properly
       understand what is being said before you go off half-cocked for
       the thousandth time.
       The season I referred to originally ("the first time he started
       more often than not") is the 18/19 season, which is where he
       started 65% of the time and subsequently got picked for England
       and played in the 6N. He then went to the world cup in 2019.
       The 19/20 season, he started 58% of the time. But - ironically,
       given you told me to read that stat again - it's 58% of the time
       for both teams combined. For Saracens, it was 44%. Then he went
       to Bath and was first choice, starting 89%, and has remained
       first choice ever since.
       His career stats for Saracens? 58 starts in 139 matches. 42%.
       His career at Saracens is one of being a backup 9 with one
       single season (out of 7!) where he started more than half the
       matches. That season saw him get into the England team.
       It's not rocket science - if he was as good as you say, he
       would've been the undisputed starting 9 at Saracens, and if he
       had been the starting 9 at Saracens, it's extremely likely he
       would have had a better international career as a result.
       Instead he spent his best years largely watching Richard
       Wigglesworth start for Saracens, a signing from Sale who was
       still starting ahead of him aged 36.
       Spencer's final 5 Premiership matches for Saracens? Benched.
       From appearing in a world cup final, to being on the bench for 8
       of the next 13 Saracens matches. Sums up his time with the club,
       really.
       #Post#: 121686--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: Marsile
       Date: March 26, 2024, 4:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: JammyGit link ---
       >
       > No, please learn to read, and please take the time to properly
       understand what is being said before you go off half-cocked for
       the thousandth time.
       >
       > The season I referred to originally ("the first time he
       started more often than not") is the 18/19 season, which is
       where he started 65% of the time and subsequently got picked for
       England and played in the 6N. He then went to the world cup in
       2019.
       >
       > The 19/20 season, he started 58% of the time. But -
       ironically, given you told me to read that stat again - it's 58%
       of the time for both teams combined. For Saracens, it was 44%.
       Then he went to Bath and was first choice, starting 89%, and has
       remained first choice ever since.
       >
       > His career stats for Saracens? 58 starts in 139 matches. 42%.
       >
       > His career at Saracens is one of being a backup 9 with one
       single season (out of 7!) where he started more than half the
       matches. That season saw him get into the England team.
       >
       > It's not rocket science - if he was as good as you say, he
       would've been the undisputed starting 9 at Saracens, and if he
       had been the starting 9 at Saracens, it's extremely likely he
       would have had a better international career as a result.
       Instead he spent his best years largely watching Richard
       Wigglesworth start for Saracens, a signing from Sale who was
       still starting ahead of him aged 36.
       >
       > Spencer's final 5 Premiership matches for Saracens? Benched.
       From appearing in a world cup final, to being on the bench for 8
       of the next 13 Saracens matches. Sums up his time with the club,
       really.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       By your own words, he's been playing extremely well, 89% of the
       time as first choice, for Bath and yet he still falls behind a
       37 year old Danny Care in the England pecking order.
       Besides, as we all know, it's eminently possible that the second
       choice 9 at one club can still be a better player than the first
       choice 9 at another club.
       For clarity, I'm not certain that the most capped England player
       of all time is even the best rugby player in his own family.
       I personally think the treatment of Spencer by England has been
       little short of scandalous.
       #Post#: 121689--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: JammyGit
       Date: March 26, 2024, 6:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Are you going to acknowledge any of the points made?
       I think Spencer is a very good rugby player who probably
       deserves to have had more of a chance in the last couple of
       seasons given his particular skill set, but it isn't some kind
       of travesty of justice when his form hasn't been obviously
       superior to the recent incumbents. I've made my case as to why
       his decision to stay at Saracens, a club that clearly did not
       view him as anything more than a quality backup for an
       international failure, hurt his England chances more than
       anything else. If you're not regularly starting games at 9 it's
       difficult to see how you can get ahead of other talented
       players.
       Talking about what matches he started while refusing to mention
       the elephant in the room regarding his career just seems
       pointless to me.
       Anyway, it would be nice, as a gesture of good faith, if
       occasionally you would acknowledge that you got it wrong. You
       misread my post and the stats you smugly told me to read again,
       and it's far from the first time. It is difficult to have a
       discussion on the level with someone who approaches every
       interaction as an opportunity to find a new angle of attack if
       the old one fails rather than engage with the substance of the
       point. You had your fun crowing during the demolition derby at
       the weekend but surely you must see how your repeated insistence
       on stepping on the garden rakes just makes you look bad? Does it
       not get tiring for you? Is it not more interesting to actually
       think about what's being said?
       #Post#: 121690--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: Marsile
       Date: March 27, 2024, 2:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If 'recent incumbents' includes the pair of 100-cap bottlenecks
       who either pass the ball directly into touch or kick it directly
       there then I simply disagree that their form has been better
       than Spencer's.
       And while we're on the subject of good faith, let's look at
       Spencer start percentages for his last two full seasons at
       Saracens again;
       18/19 Season he started 14/21 67%
       17/18 Season 13/24 54%
       He was also offered a contract to stay at Saracens but moved to
       Bath because of the relegation to the Championship. He was the
       undisputed no.1 scrumhalf when he left Saracens.
       #Post#: 121691--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: A222Quin
       Date: March 27, 2024, 2:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yes that’s all Youngs and Care did during their 900 odd combined
       appearances for Club and Country over the last few years.
       Obvious troll is obvious.
       #Post#: 121692--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
       Date: March 27, 2024, 2:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Am I missing much by not reading and speeding through anything
       posted by our visitor....?
       #Post#: 121698--------------------------------------------------
       Re: DANNY CARE RETIRES FROM INTERNATIONAL RUGBY
   DIR By: dr_miles
       Date: March 27, 2024, 4:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This fella Marsile is a tedious bore, isn't he? We might all
       disagree about plenty of things on this board, but surely that
       unites us all.
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