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#Post#: 121233--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 19, 2024, 12:31 pm
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David's far more likely to be substituted or be coming off the
bench, mind, thanks to the strength of the team (and his own
ability to be the back 3 cover). I had some time to kill so I
thought I'd take a look at the comparisons with that in mind.
David averaged 64 mins per game in the league last season and
started 19/23 matches; 37 mins in the league in year before and
7/12 starts.
This season he's started every game and averages 76 minutes,
which is probably why he's scored 7 in 15 starts.
Carpenter scored 7 in 23 matches (22 starts, averaging 76
minutes) last season and 2 in 11 matches (9 starts, averaging
69.5 minutes) this season. Granted, David DOES have the benefit
of being on the wing, but the biggest thing that helps you score
tries is being on the pitch in the first place ;-)
Or to put it another way:
Minutes per try in League & Europe:
22/23: Roebuck 132.7 (every 1.66 games), Carpenter 243 (every
3.03 games), David 296 (every 3.7 games)
23/24: Roebuck 216.2 (every 2.7 games), Carpenter 382 (every
4.78 games), David 162.6 (every 2.03 games)
David was at 15 for 16 of his 19 starts in 22/23, and on the
wing for 9/15 this season, which probably explains the
difference. But despite Sale's slump this season, last season's
record shows exactly why Roebuck is highly regarded - that's a
serious strike rate, quite a bit better than Freeman's this
season and comparable with his record last season.
Given the difference in styles between Sale and Quins/Saints,
that's pretty good going. Roebuck is clearly producing the
goods. He's not 22/23 Cadan Murley level for strike rate, but
then who is? Still, his own 22/23 strike rate is only a touch
above Murley's from the season before (Murley scored 15, one
every 129 minutes).
Similar story for most other guys in the frame. Will Muir scored
a try every 144 minutes in 21/22, barely played last season, and
a try every 183 minutes this season. Cokanasiga managed a try
every 213 minutes in 22/23, every 130 minutes this season,
basically the reverse of Roebuck's last 2 seasons. No-one is
really questioning his numbers...
#Post#: 121242--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: poorfour
Date: March 19, 2024, 3:04 pm
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For Murley it's
23/24 165.5 (every 2.06 games) - though that's off 6 appearances
and he got injured in 2 of them.
22/23 97.8 (every 1.22 games)
21/22 129.4 (every 1.61 games)
It does make you wonder just what it is that England don't see
in him. His scoring efficiency last season was exceptional.
For completeness, Lynagh:
23/24 181.8 (every 2.2 games) - also coming back from injury
22/23 203 (every 2.5 games)
21/22 112.6 (every 1.4 games)
20/21 118.6 (every 1.5 games)
#Post#: 121244--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: Marsile
Date: March 19, 2024, 3:33 pm
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--- Quote from: poorfour link ---
>
> For Murley it's
>
> 23/24 165.5 (every 2.06 games) - though that's off 6
appearances and he got injured in 2 of them.
> 22/23 97.8 (every 1.22 games)
> 21/22 129.4 (every 1.61 games)
>
> It does make you wonder just what it is that England don't see
in him. His scoring efficiency last season was exceptional.
>
> For completeness, Lynagh:
> 23/24 181.8 (every 2.2 games) - also coming back from injury
> 22/23 203 (every 2.5 games)
> 21/22 112.6 (every 1.4 games)
> 20/21 118.6 (every 1.5 games)
>
--- End Quote ---
If Adam Radwan played for Quins, Saints or Sarries he'd score
dozens of tries for fun. He's the most hard done by winger in
England.
#Post#: 121246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: TomBuckQuin
Date: March 19, 2024, 4:22 pm
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--- Quote from: Marsile link ---
>
>
> If Adam Radwan played for Quins, Saints or Sarries he'd score
dozens of tries for fun. He's the most hard done by winger in
England.
>
--- End Quote ---
If that's all you want your wingers to do, he's your man. I like
mine to also do a bit of tackling, catch a few high balls and
work hard in heavy traffic, but different strokes I guess...
#Post#: 121248--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 19, 2024, 5:37 pm
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OK this is all super - but I've already done league minutes and
tries for all of them.
Sleightholme, muir, murley have the best strike rates. Then
there are 10 or so others. Then Roebuck, gabs etc.
The wingers in the frame need to be playing in the league. So
compare league stats. The pools in the respective cups are
different enough, before you consider champs vs chumps.
#Post#: 121249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 19, 2024, 5:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TomBuckQuin link ---
>
> If that's all you want your wingers to do, he's your man. I
like mine to also do a bit of tackling, catch a few high balls
and work hard in heavy traffic, but different strokes I guess...
>
--- End Quote ---
Huh?
#Post#: 121250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: T-Bone
Date: March 19, 2024, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Someone do the stats for rucks kit, balls kicked away aimlessly,
balls chased after but not really challenged for, easy kicks
collected and kicked straight back, metres run sideways, all the
really important attributes
#Post#: 121251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: JammyGit
Date: March 19, 2024, 6:39 pm
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--- Quote from: RodneyRegis link ---
>
> OK this is all super - but I've already done league minutes
and tries for all of them.
>
> Sleightholme, muir, murley have the best strike rates. Then
there are 10 or so others. Then Roebuck, gabs etc.
>
> The wingers in the frame need to be playing in the league. So
compare league stats. The pools in the respective cups are
different enough, before you consider champs vs chumps.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well that's silly - European matches count, surely.
Muir's strike rate in his career in senior matches (i.e. not
Prem cup) is 154, Roebuck's 184. Clear difference in Muir's
favour.
Except, of course, that Muir is 28 years old, and has a strike
rate that's been rising ever since the 20/21 season (which is
the only time it was better than Roebuck was last season when he
was a 22 year old!)
It's incredibly impressive that Roebuck has over 50 Prem
appearances and 11 Champions Cup appearances at his age. I can
only wonder what his strike rate will look like when he's 28,
like Muir, especially when you consider he's already scored the
same number of career tries in the Premiership + Europe as Muir
has. He's not having the finest season right now but Sale are
having a bit of a shocker all told. As a young player, last
season's breakthrough put him on England's radar for good
reason. I don't think he's the best winger in the country or
anything, I'm just incredibly surprised that you don't
understand why people are excited about him and why he's being
mentioned in England terms already.
I bet Muir would kill for 5 tries in 11 Champions Cup matches
(vs 1 in 6), mind...
(Those 11 matches - La Rochelle away, Glasgow home; Ospreys x2
(2T), Clermont away (1T), Bristol away (1T), Racing 92 away;
Ulster Away; Stade Francais home, Leinster away, La Rochelle
home (1T) - that's several of the better teams in the tournament
and easily compares to Muir's opponents)
I like Sleightholme a lot and I'm glad he's having such a good
season. It genuinely looked like he'd lost it in the 21/22
season and to see him put together a run of games after some
injury problems and score a bucket load of tries is great. I do
wonder why he's not talked about more - defensive issues? No
aerial game? Maybe I'll go pester a Saints fan for opinions...
#Post#: 121252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 20, 2024, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I hope that OS can stay fit this season and force his way into
the reckoning for summer/autumn, as I do murley. And I'd like to
see radwan get another go.
Manny has grabbed his opportunity with both hands, which is
great, but it must be a bit galling for some of these players
who have been performing for years and barely had a chance.
Would he have been picked if he hadn't been a capture? Guess
we'll never know.
Muir I do like, and I'm sure he would do a job, but I'm not sure
what he offers above Murley, apart from height. Murley is
freakishly strong, and a lot more skillful.
#Post#: 121253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cadan Murley seeking England chance
DIR By: RodneyRegis
Date: March 20, 2024, 3:37 am
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Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Roebuck wouldn't let anyone down
and he's enjoying a good run of form. But I'd love to see
outside backs in particular picked because of what they bring in
the way of speed or finishing, rather than kick chasing or bulk.
That Daly and coka repeatedly get chances ahead of some of these
guys is horrible. Have a look at TR when some of the out and out
try machines have failed.
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