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       #Post#: 120790--------------------------------------------------
       O/T ‘I couldn’t tell you what we are:’ England’s search for
       identity goes on... 
   DIR By: deadlyfrom5yardsout
       Date: March 7, 2024, 5:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Six Nations 2024
       ‘I couldn’t tell you what we are:’ England’s search for identity
       goes on
       Steve Borthwick changes his plan for every game but that leaves
       him open to charges of being overreliant on data
       Gerard Meagher (Guardian)
       Wed 6 Mar 2024 18.00 GMT
       What do England want to be? What are they trying to be? How are
       they perceived by opponents and what is the identity they are
       trying to forge? The very fact that these are not easy questions
       to answer illustrates the predicament for Steve Borthwick’s side
       with two daunting Six Nations matches remaining.
       To frame things another way, try summing up England in a single
       sentence. For a lot of their rivals it is a far easier task:
       Ireland are a well-oiled team, relentless and precise. Wales are
       green but full of fight, Scotland lethal on the counterattack.
       Beyond the Six Nations, South Africa are a team who knock the
       front door down, and New Zealand marry speed and skill like no
       other. But England?
       Sam Underhill is one of the squad’s deepest thinkers, among
       their most articulate players, but he struggled to characterise
       England this week. “I think it’s hard to have that level of
       self-awareness,” he said.
       “You want to be a physical team [with] a massive emphasis around
       the set piece. We want to have a good defence, it’s historically
       something we’ve gone after. And the attack stuff, we’re trying
       to develop and improve. I probably couldn’t tell you what we
       are, because I’m in it, so I can’t really look from the outside
       and get that perspective. That’s what I guess we’re trying to
       look at.”
       Part of the problem is Borthwick’s insistence that each game
       plan is tailored specifically to the opposition. All teams do
       that to a degree but the constant shape‑shifting makes it
       all the more difficult to forge an identity and leaves England
       open to the kind of accusations, made by Will Carling this week,
       that they are overreliant on data and, by association, what it
       says about their opponents.
       The problem is compounded because England are always striving
       for cohesion but they have players coming from 10 clubs, all
       with their own thoughts, ideas and styles. It is a problem we
       are hearing a lot about this week because Ireland are held up as
       the opposite, a side for whom cohesion comes so much easier
       because of their domestic structure.
       “You judge us against Ireland – [they] are together for long
       periods and you look at their attack and it’s phenomenal,” says
       Dan Cole. “But their players know who’s going to be there
       because they do it day in, day out, 365 days a year, pretty
       much. Whereas we have to come together, we have a tournament
       here, a tournament there, we’ve got new players in squads,
       people come from different teams playing in different ways –
       which is great, it’s a strength in the fact we have different
       diversities of how you play the game. But it’s also a weakness
       in some regards because you have to get them on the same page,
       play a certain way that England play, and sometimes it goes
       against the instinct of a certain player, or a certain club, or
       a certain team.”
       If it is hard to get on the same page then it is all the more
       difficult to stay on it when things start to go wrong. The
       capitulation against Scotland was a clear example and it was
       telling to hear Maro Itoje lambast his teammates afterwards for
       playing “tip-tap rugby” and “hot potato”. The inference is that
       some players sought to respond to Scotland’s opening try by
       playing with abandon whereas others favour a more route-one
       approach.
       It was also a problem during England’s World Cup warm-up
       campaign when players began to question the restrictive game
       plan that was not yielding results. But by the time they arrived
       in France they had adopted a more belligerent attitude in
       response to the criticism they received for losing at home
       against Fiji and, as a result, there was a collective buy-in to
       the kick-heavy game plan. It did not win them many admirers yet
       at least England were clear on their identity.
       When Courtney Lawes was asked about it during the pool stages,
       his response was unequivocal. “We’re a really strong defensive
       team,” he said. “That’s our backbone. We’re an aerial kicking
       team and are very good at getting the ball back.”
       Since then England have overhauled their defensive system. They
       say they are looking to be more expansive with ball in hand yet,
       according to reports, are spending little time practising it and
       made a staggering 25 handling errors against Scotland. They have
       not scored more than two tries in a game since putting Chile to
       the sword last September and though we hear words like
       “transition” and talk of World Cup cycles, England are staring
       down the barrel of a fourth successive Six Nations with only two
       wins.
       It is a rut that is proving increasingly hard to get out of and
       though the Rugby Football Union may think otherwise, but the
       “hybrid” contracts coming in next season are unlikely to be a
       silver bullet.
       There is an argument, then, that Borthwick ought to have stuck
       to his guns and persevered with the limited if effective game
       plan that took them to the World Cup semi-finals. Because
       without a consistent identity it becomes all the more difficult
       for players to get on the same page. If they do not have a modus
       operandi, a bespoke way of playing they can fall back on, then
       unravelling as they did at Murrayfield becomes all the more
       likely.
       On Saturday they go into the home match as considerable
       underdogs though it is the kind of fixture that suits England
       because they will have less of the ball than Ireland and are
       better at frustrating high-quality opponents, rather than
       imposing their game plan on them. But Carling is not alone in
       speaking out of late and the knives are being sharpened. There
       are different ways to lose but defeat will put Borthwick’s job
       under genuine scrutiny for the first time.
       #Post#: 120793--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ‘I couldn’t tell you what we are:’ England’s search for
       identity goes on... 
   DIR By: Banstead Quin
       Date: March 7, 2024, 5:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It's like the first 90 minutes of Mike Basset, England
       manager......responding to the criticism game by game and not
       focussing on a way to win, rather than on what the oppo do.
       He needs to, metaphorically, play 44 fu**ing 2 and get on with
       it
       #Post#: 120794--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ‘I couldn’t tell you what we are:’ England’s search for
       identity goes on... 
   DIR By: MaidstoneQuin
       Date: March 7, 2024, 5:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Essentially theres a few things why England are crap.
       1. SB himself. Dull player, dull captain, and very much a safety
       first choice.
       2. Inexperienced coaching set up for test rugby, who seemingly
       only got the job based off a title when the one season Sarries
       weren't at the races.
       3. Trying to implement safe tactics that work in the
       premiership, but at test level you need to be different.
       4. Selecting players who aren't used to the dull mind numbing
       rugby, but individually are very good when allowed to play an
       attacking game (IE Smith). Then they are brought in to a
       training camp and essentially told to forget everything thats
       got them there, and to play a different way. Point proven in how
       disjointed Marcus looks when he comes back to us for a few games
       5. The blitz defence is a gimmick. We lost by Scotland to our
       biggest margin! We do not have the players with the pace and
       strength to play that system effectively.
       With the above, its no wonder why after 20 tests we look as poor
       as we did when Eddie was here in his last days. Brian Ashton
       didn't last much longer than the amount SB has had, and I think
       even SB's win % will be less then the one Ashton was sacked for,
       once we lose to Ireland and France.
       If I were SB, and I was sticking to his stick it up your jumper
       approach, hoping we get a line out we can shove over, this is
       the team he should pick.
       1. Marler
       2. George
       3. Cole
       4. Itoje
       5. Ewels
       6. Ludlam
       7. Earl
       8. Barbaery
       9. Spencer
       10. Ford
       11. Cokansiga (sp)
       12. Tuilagi
       13. Lawrence
       14. Nowell (Yes I know he cannot be picked by you get the point)
       15. Steward
       Lets look at the facts, Under SB we've lost to Scotland twice,
       Ireland twice, destroyed in the biggest ever defeat at home by
       France, lost to Fiji at home, and only narrowly beat wales at HQ
       on two occasions. To think it's suddenly going to click and we
       start winning convincingly is delusion
       #Post#: 120798--------------------------------------------------
       Re: O/T ‘I couldn’t tell you what we are:’ England’s search for
       identity goes on... 
   DIR By: ChiddQuin
       Date: March 7, 2024, 6:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: MaidstoneQuin link ---
       >
       >
       >
       > Lets look at the facts, Under SB we've lost to Scotland twice,
       Ireland twice, destroyed in the biggest ever defeat at home by
       France, lost to Fiji at home, and only narrowly beat wales at HQ
       on two occasions. To think it's suddenly going to click and we
       start winning convincingly is delusion
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Sadly I think you are correct.
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